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Lucky Germans!

Lucky Germans!

can have electronically limited top speed of 130 mph uncapped for the Autobahn

http://transportevolved.com/2013/10/22/tesla-gives-free-autobahn-tuning-...

Jolinar | October 22, 2013

yea, and that 135kW SuperCharger will be ultra fast, at least at the beginning of the charging session...

how many 120kW chargers are already available in US?

shop | October 22, 2013

I think the article took license over what Elon actually said. Elon didn't say the speed limit of the Model S would change, just tuning, which to me means suspension mods. We'll know Thursday when the press release comes out.

Renegade | October 22, 2013

135kW Superchargers Coming to the US by next year.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/statuses/392437727284973569

And they'll be upgradable even beyond that.

PapaSmurf | October 22, 2013

If you run the car at 130 mph for more than a few minutes, I am fairly sure the heat will bring on a performance limiting mode fairly quickly. That is how it was in the Roadster. Has anyone done 130 mph more than a few seconds?

AmpedRealtor | October 22, 2013

I think Elon is feeling generous and is going to give all German buyers an automatic P+ upgrade! Well one can dream...

Vall | October 22, 2013

@James

The roadster had an air cooled motor, Model S has a water cooled motor, overheating at 130 mph seems very unlikely, as the air flow through the heat exchangers will increase proportionately to the speed. Also, the battery will be empty in less than an hour, maybe 30 minutes or so.

tezzla.SoCal | October 22, 2013

How long would it take to charge from 0-200 miles using 135kW?

carolinagobo | October 22, 2013

Germany has better freeways they drive better "no trucks and slow people driving to the left side" no old smoking cars with broken tile lights are allow to transit, and the no ridiculous 55 mph that we still have and nobody follows.

carlk | October 23, 2013

Half of American drivers don't know how to drive and, for whatever reasons, half of these drivers like to stay on the fast lane. Unlike in Europe that you can flash to signal your intention to pass they will get offended by that and hit the brake to slow down even more. It's no fun to drive fast here unless your are the aggressive type who will tailgate or cut in and out to pass.

AmpedRealtor | October 23, 2013

Americans seem like hillbillies compared to the Germans when it comes to driving behavior.

Kleist | October 23, 2013

AR - not really. Main reason are the difference in rules and much longer distances.
Major German cities are only 60-100 miles apart... it is like driving from San Jose to San Francisco - really no need for a snack with cup holders.

carolinagobo | October 23, 2013

Is not only Germans East Europe has high requirements for driving,in order to obtain a driver license you rally need to learn how to drive, if you get flashed driving on the left line you move or they will kick your a** at the next station, other concern is that in America you see old cars with the emission sticker until 2050 smoking and dripping oil, broken tail lights, totally unsafe if you drive to 150mph. Btw the average accidents in Europe are less than America.

Carefree | October 23, 2013

Flashing someone ahead of you to get them to move over is just as illegal in Europe as it is in the US and you will get ticketed a hefty fine if they catch you.

carlk | October 23, 2013

@Carefree Are you from Germany? From what I heard I always thought it's OK to flash to pass and people commonly do that there. So I did some Googling it looks my original believe is still right. No?

"It's only considered slightly rude to flash to pass".

" If you happen to be in that Porsche, note that a short flash of the high beams is an acceptable way to let another driver know you want to pass."

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/eight-rules-for-driving-on-the-germ...

http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Drive_on_the_Autobahn

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130614150017AAqK2jO

dtesla | October 23, 2013

The German (and Europe in general) have on board chargers that are about 11 KW each. So the German (and presumably all European) Superchargers have the same 12 on board chargers that we do. It is just 11 *12 is around 135 KW.

My source is http://www.plugincars.com/tesla-gives-german-owners-free-autobahn-tune-1....

Pungoteague_Dave | October 23, 2013

@Vall

"The roadster had an air cooled motor, Model S has a water cooled motor, overheating at 130 mph seems very unlikely, as the air flow through the heat exchangers will increase proportionately to the speed."

Um, no Vall, the S does NOT have a water cooled motor. Its motor is air cooled too. Perhaps you are thinking of the main battery, which is cooled by an ethylene glycol/water mix.

Sudre_ | October 23, 2013

Dave everything is liquid cooled.

"Model S is a rear wheel drive electric vehicle. The liquid-cooled powertrain includes the battery, motor, drive inverter, and gear box."

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/specs

GeekEV | October 23, 2013

I think there's some misreading of the article as well. In one place it says 130mph, in another it says greater than 130kph....

"With ... an electronically-limited top speed of 130 mph, the Tesla Model S ... as refined and enjoyable above the 130kph (80mph) Richtgeschwindlgkeit (advisory speed limit) as it is at lower speeds."

bigbit | October 23, 2013

It is not illegal to flash lights to pass, only if you come to close and force someone to move over by tailgating. If u flash from a distance to attract attention it's frowned upon but not punishable. I live in the Netherlands just 5 kliks from the german border. So i at least could know ;)
http://www.finanztip.de/recht/verkehr/noetigung-im-strassenverkehr.htm if you can read german

hammy16 | October 23, 2013

My understanding is that there are 3 separate liquid cooling loops. One for the main battery, one for the internal cabin cooling and one for the motor/inverter. Picked this up at a Tesla event but do not recall seeing it in print anywhere. Would be nice to see an overall schematic diagram..

PapaSmurf | October 23, 2013

Regardless of the cooling inside, I don't think anyone will be doing 130 mph for long periods of time in a Model S. Either it will overheat or the battery pack will run down really fast.

I suspect you wouldn't even get 100 miles of range at 130 mph. Maybe 120 miles.

30-45 minutes perhaps before you need to reach a Supercharger? I doubt anyone would drive at 130 mph when the battery is below 20%.

Then 30 minutes for a recharge at 135 kW? (20% to 80%)

It would likely be faster overall to just drive 70-80 mph for a road trip.

And I suspect that type of regular 130 mph driving would be horrible for the long term health of the battery pack. Total capacity would likely drop quickly with that type of regular abuse.

The advantage of EVs is in the acceleration. Top speed for any long distance is not likely to be an area where Teslas are competitive with BMW or Mercedes or Audi.

Carefree | October 23, 2013

Yes, I am German - I've been living in the US though for the past 20 years. Flashing your high beams on the Autobahn to get the right of way is a very gray area. There is a thin line between letting someone know you are coming and you want to pass and "forcing" someone to move over. There have been many cases where the "offending" driver was handed a ticket when caught.

These days the Autobahn is so clogged that it's almost pointless to not have a speed limit. In most cases you can't go faster than 120-130km anyway because the traffic is so horrific.

PapaSmurf | October 23, 2013

@Carefree,
I used to live in Germany back in 88-89 (when it was still West Germany). Even then I recall many areas near cities where there were speed limits on the Autobahn.

Isn't it true that most of the Autobahn is limited in speed now?

Ampfreak | October 23, 2013

@dtesla

Most European countries can provide 3-phase 230V current with 16 or even 32 Amps. Teslas standard charge cable for those countries accepts 3x16 Amp = 48 Amp x 230V = 11040W. This was one of the reasons to enhance the charger to 11KW.

Carefree | October 23, 2013

@JamesM,

while it feels that way sometimes when you need to get somewhere quickly, most of the Autobahn is still without a speed limit:-)

Kimscar | October 23, 2013

I think they might do one of these two things.

1 change the gear ratio from 9.73:1 to get a higher top end. Would sacrifice some acceleration.

2. Have a super cruise mode. Above a given speed automatically or manually engage super cruise. This would allow the car to accelerate rapidly and yet at high cruise speed change gearing to reduce current draw on battery.

PapaSmurf | October 23, 2013

After watching the video, I don't think Elon is saying the top speed will be higher. It sounds more like it is adjustments to made the ride feel better at 130 mph or similar high speeds.

Bubba2000 | October 23, 2013

My understanding is that the Model S is limited at 130 mph electronically. The induction motor may be capable of higher rpm and the necessary torque. The inverter would have to supply the frequency and necessary current. I do not know the specs.

Regardless, if the German market requires, Tesla will have to soup up the Model S. I think it will be easier to add AWD and supply the additional speed and power. May need stronger batteries. Does not make sense just to send all the power to the real wheels.

Brian H | October 24, 2013

This is to be offered free to all new and existing owners. Argues against hardware modification, esp. gear replacement. And definitely NOT dual gearing. That's a massive change, not happening.

It's a "tuning". Almost certainly S/W only. Boosted cooling is likely central.

2050project | October 24, 2013

Wish we could go max speed like on the Autobahn here in the U.S. too, it'd be nice to get the Model S tuned "Autobahn-ready" versions Elon is alluding to here in the U.S. Jealous.

Anyhow, just saw a nice online resource to pass along for those lucky Model S owners in Germany that could prove helpful... Valet Instructions for the Model S translated into German:
http://www.teslaccessories.com/pages/gaste-anleitung-german

Geert.Snijders | October 24, 2013

@Brian +1

As we already experienced, Tesla is not in the business of giving free rides. So unless their cost of the upgrade is very low, it will not be free.
Consider it in terms of chip tuning motor management in ICE cars.
By changing parameters the top speed and duration can be stretched...

Tiebreaker | October 24, 2013

@GeekEV
130 kph (80 mph) is the "advisory speed limit", the recommended speed in the no-speed-limit zones. MS is limited at 130 mph. So Tesla is tuning the MS for the 80 mph - 130 mph range, to be "...as refined and enjoyable" as under 80 mph.

Car t man | October 24, 2013

Electronically limited speed is slightly electronically unlimited. It simply means they tweak the inverter settings a bit, main of which is increasing the max RPM the motor is allowed to spin at.

Jolinar | October 24, 2013

@Ampfreak
yes, you are right, European Chargers are 11kW so TwinCharger is 22kW. But Tesla standard charging cable (UMC) is pretty useless when you have TwinCharger because that UMC limits charging only to 11kW...

We had to buy special charging cable for public chargers (typ2 -> typ2 3*32A) and special cable for standard 'dumb' 3*32A sockets, so now we have 3 cables and that Tesla is only a backup.

hsadler | October 24, 2013

It is a rare car that goes over 135 Mph on the Autobahns. That's just above 200 km. Most go around 130 km. Stretches of the Autobahn where there is no speed limit are getting fewer each year (due to congestion)

The polite (required?) action is to move to the right except when passing. And (I may be wrong), but passing on the right is illegal and may be cause to confiscate your car.

Yes there are fewer accidents - but when there are - it usually results in death.

carlk | October 24, 2013

"Yes there are fewer accidents - but when there are - it usually results in death."

Perhaps another selling point for the Model S.

RZippel | October 24, 2013

@hsadler:

Driving on the right is obligatory in Germany, so you are right, required not just polite. It is still very dangerous to go 250+ kph because the relative speed to a truck on the right lane with 80 or a car in the middle lane (mostly 2-3 lane highways) with 130 is still significant. People in Germany tend to overestimate their skills and underestimate the reaction times. If someone suddenly pulls from middle to right with 120 (to overtake someone going 110) and you go 220, you can be in a severe accident beyond your control quickly. And it is your fault if something happens as a basic rule sais: You need to be able to stop for any unforeseen hazard, no exceptions. If you can't, even if someone did something forbidden or stupid in front of you, you will get the bill (if you are alive).

Do the same math with a 80 kph truck and a car going 300 kph on a two lane Autobahn and it becomes clear that this is suicidal.

I pass with max. 50 excess speed and do racing on a track where is is at least reasonably safe.