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an idea for super charger

an idea for super charger

As a fan of Musk, I like to see Tesla could be 1st auto-motor company in next 10 years. I just wonder if Tesla could cooperate with some fast-food chain company,like Mcdonalds. Building 2-3 supercharge parking station in the restaurant parking lot will be win-win for both Tesla and restaurant. Don't need be free charge.
The benefit for Tesla will be
1. saving a lots of money to build supercharge station and save money for people to maintain stations
2. saving time to find and deal location, fast food restaurants normally are all in the good location.
3. no more boring and waiting, people can eat and wait for charging the battery at the same time.
4. timing, thousands of super charger can be built in a limited time.

The benefit for fast food restaurant.
1. getting better image of the company, go green!
2. getting a little bit more customer visit, it can be a big number when eV car become very popular.
3. getting a little bit more revenue if charging is not free.

any discussion?

Kleist | May 29, 2013

I like variety... so to chain SC to a single business is a really bad idea IMO.

DallasTeslan | May 29, 2013

I like the idea, however I have heard superchargers are expensive ($250,000 apiece is the number I have seen, someone correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure right now this would be an attractive idea for fast food places, and most Tesla customers probably don't want to spend that much time at one either.

I think a high end grocery chain (Whole Foods, Central Market) would be ideal. The amount of time it takes to charge would be just about the amount of time to shop for groceries. Whole Foods is very environmentally focused. This partnership would make a lot of sense.

jerryyang | May 29, 2013

DallasTeslan, I think Tesla could pay for the supercharges equipments and Tesla will save the cost of location and people maintaining.
compare fast food chain vs other business.
fast food chain has some advantage here and i think it is more important.
1. they are all close to high way, most are next to gas station. so they are all in the good location. "like" and "can" is different story, you dont have to like eat fast food, but if u can only get car charged there, you will go there. eating and filling gas are natural beheavior for most dirive for a long trip.
2. they have 10x more location than any business shop. so Tesla just negotiates with one CEO, best solution will be there.

SamO | May 29, 2013

@jerryyang

Do not associate Tesla with McDonald's. EVER.

Then don't spend 250,000 on a charger with marginal utility.

If anything, just do a HPWC at ANY location that wants them. You can add 60 miles of charge/hour. They only cost $3000 installed.

jerryyang | May 29, 2013

@SamoSam,
McDonald's just for example. if all fast chains allow Tesla build and put 2 HPWC in their parking lot, they dont need any other super charger. millions of super charger worldwide. eV foundation mission completed. later all car company need ask tesla to get permit for supercharging.
btw, the sign of fast food chain is easy to be seen by people driving on the high way, you don't need pay additional fee and cost to tell people where to get car charged.

carlgo | May 29, 2013

Gas stations are where people drive, are convenient, have parking spaces, have the right zoning, don't have neighbors that might complain. They are well lit at night, have bathrooms and you can top off with Red Bull. That is where the majority of Supercharges should, need, to be.

Or, driving at night, you could locate a Whole Foods store and charge up in the dark and deserted parking lot, being circled by primered Camaros.

TI Sailor | May 29, 2013

Many (most?) Walmarts located in close proximity to major highways are open 24/7, have plenty of parking day or night, often have other retailers nearby or in the store, e.g., deli's, bakeries, Subway Restaurants or McDonalds. They are also well-lit, have public restrooms, and usually have security personnel in the stores and parking lots. Other real benefits to TM include a single international corporation to deal with, Walmart's stated objective to reduce its costs through the use of alternative energy and a partnership already in place with Solar City in CA. Since I prefer to drive at night on trips, I personally would rather use an SC in a Walmart parking lot than one at a gas station or a closed-after-9PM outlet mall.

Brian H | May 29, 2013

Gas stations would encourage users to take only the minimum necessary charge and clear out as soon as possible. Especially if the breeze was blowing from the pumps.

jerryyang | May 29, 2013

@carlgo, Gas station had two problems when compare with fast food chain.
1. people have to wait there and do nothing. 30mins is a perfect time for fast food.
2. the owner of Gas station prob wont have any will to let Tesla put their supercharge station there with a good deal because Tesla will steal their money and job in the future when Ev car everywhere.

if you drive long way a lot you will know when people drive off the high way to fill gas. 70% time they looking for food or drink together.

DallasTeslan | May 30, 2013

You seem to be very hung up on the fast food idea. I absolutely hate fast food and wouldn't eat it if they gave it to me for free while my Tesla was getting charged for free (Chick Fil-A being an exception). The Whole Foods idea I brought up was not necessarily meant to be for long trips. It's inevitable that gas stations will start to have charging stations. It just makes too much sense because the infrastructure is there. At first they may be reluctant but ultimately they would rather have the traffic than have Tesla customers going elsewhere.

Koz | May 30, 2013

I've been recommending Cracker Barrel and/or the like to Tesla for 7 years and still maintain that is best choice. Sit down restaurants, located by major highway exits (highwayside). One hour, nearly full charge and save location cost as suggested above. They should also look to partner with a hotel chain like Marriot but don't need supercharging there, 240V is fine for hotels.

reinthal | May 30, 2013

@jerryyang Great minds think alike as they say! I also recently thought of McDonald's restaurants as the perfect place to situate EV superchargers here in Australia. I think the idea has a lot of merit: they are dotted all over the countryside at regular intervals & are almost always open 24/7; every McDonald's over here (not sure about the USA) seems to have a "McCafe" inside with reasonable coffee & donuts/cakes; they have the newspapers, bathrooms *and* wifi. Pretty much all you need for a 30 minute break. And of course there are slides and toys to keep little kids amused.

And another benefit is that they are *not* service stations. Service station companies whose main business is selling fossil-fuel may resist the spread of EV supercharging stations. I think everyone can see that it is simply not in their interest to see their main business being sidelined and eventually being made obsolete. I am not sure what they could do to nobble the spread of EV superchargers but I'm sure they could put some very bright people on the case...

No, what we need is a EV supercharging network in **direct competition** with existing service stations for at least a ten year period until EVs become prevalent enough for the service station companies to see that EVs will be their main business.

Brian H | May 30, 2013

McDonalds here (North America) is regarded pretty much as the lowest common denominator of food sellers, though it is trying to shake the image.

reinthal | May 30, 2013

@Brian H – Sounds pretty much the same as here in Australia. They've tried to bring in healthier options over the last ten years.

The other main plus for this idea is that if you could get the McDonalds corporation headquarters to agree to allow EV superchargers in their restaurant car parks, it would be easy to expedite the spread of them. It would be much easier to do that than to try and draw up a plan to work out where they should go and having to work with dozens or hundreds of municipalities & businesses right across the country as to where they could be situated. And you'd always know where to find an EV charging station too without having to bother looking it up.

TI Sailor | May 30, 2013

How many of you see 8-in-a-row empty spaces every time you drive into a McDonalds' parking area? Since they already are required to designate 2 or 3 spaces for handicapped-only parking, I really can't see them having EV-only spaces as well.

Refueling stations (electricity, LNG, gasoline, diesel, etc) would be great if/when charging times are cut to 10 minutes or less. However, as infrastructure costs would be considerably higher than the current SC model.

Sit-down restaurants would undermine the "quick charge then on your way" paradigm.

If Tesla and Solar City merged under a holding company umbrella, they could put together some really attractive PV & SC packages for megastores and malls to consider.

reinthal | May 30, 2013

@TI Sailor – I think compared to the rest of us you're thinking further ahead in time, at least for much of the world outside places like California. There won't be a need for 8+ charging spots for quite some time yet in a lot of places.

I'm thinking within a year or so just one, maybe two, EV charging spots in towns 50-100km apart. You'll certainly need places to grab a coffee and wait for your Leaf/Zoe/e-Up!/Tesla to charge for the next few years at least before faster charging technology is introduced.

TI Sailor | May 30, 2013

@rinthal - You may be right about the startup numbers. However, the SC location on the Florida west coast near Ft. Myers will have 8 bays. I suspect this will be the model for all new SC's located near interstate highways and major arteries in the U.S.

Since the Gen III is only 3 to 5 years away and EM expects their numbers to be exponentially greater than the MS, SC demand will grow at somewhat the same pace.

Build the infrastructure now and use it to help sell the Gen III. The last thing we would want is TV news videos showing long lines at SC locations. Believe me, they would be vigorously looking for those (as demanded by their local ICE dealer & oil company sponsors).

reinthal | May 30, 2013

@TI Sailor – Cool. Sounds like a plan.

So a shout out to all: What happens if you drive a Leaf etc. to a Tesla Supercharging spot? Is there any way to pay for recharging if you're not a Tesla driver?

SamO | May 30, 2013

@TI Sailor,

I think we are already close to long lines at some SC stations in CA. I think we are likely to hear about additional density. Hopefully.

TI Sailor | May 30, 2013

@reinthal - I bet hear today SC's will be placed every 150km or so, and hopefully not many in the middle of large cities.

SC's to charge Mercedes and Toyota EV's? Yes, and probably soon. Non-TM compatible chargers? Maybe down the road, especially if SAE connector becomes EV standard and is adopted by Tesla.

On a related subject, e.g., planning for the future, I might interject in addition to TSLA, I own some ExxonMobil stock...it pays a nice dividend and has appreciated significantly. That said, I've twice written corporate to remind them they're an ENERGY company first, oil company second, and they should be positioning themselves and their R&D for the future not the past. Needless to say, form letters returned both times thanking me for my interest, but nothing more. :(

Brian H | May 30, 2013

Elon's summary of the SAE standard, which TM was invited to help form but then ignored by the Society: "It sucks."

jerryyang | May 31, 2013

@Brian "McDonalds here (North America) is regarded pretty much as the lowest common denominator of food sellers, though it is trying to shake the image"
That's exactly why I think Tesla may get a good deal by cooperating their charger station with fast food chain. You help them get better image, they pay for it. fast food chain like McDonalds has very high intensity globally with lots of cash. they may free install Tesla charger. they will mention Tesla in their world wide advertisement. free advertisement for Tesla. 100x times more charger station than current plan 100 station in US with same mount money paid. Elon already show people he can make perfect product, he also need show investor he knows how to save money. I think cooperating with some fast food chain is the way to go in the future. Steve job without cook wont made apple succeed last decade, Steve job knows how to make perfect product and cook know how to save money.

lph | May 31, 2013

Much better than McDonalds (which I would not step a toe into because of the garbage they sell) and its like. How about a place like Wholefoods. This place already has eating areas where you can get healthy and environmentally friendly food and it also tends to gather trendy high quality restaurants around it.

The other thing that is really important is at least a large (medium or better quality) Hotel chain adopt at least 10kW chargers (preferably 20kW) at all their outlets. That way on a trip you can wake up to a full battery and the Hotel got your business. Also nothing like having almost exclusive access to Tesla owners to bring on the other chains into the fold.
Win- win!

Brian H | May 31, 2013

jerry;
you seem to be making a bunch of false assumptions, such as:

1. Tesla is short of Supercharger locations
2. Supercharger hardware is expensive
3. Tesla pays for the electricity
4. Owners are attracted to a high-volume fast food chain

JPPTM | June 1, 2013

lph--FWIW WholeFoods here in the SF Bay Area have ChargePoint chargers (free) which are heavily used. Might be nice to have superchargers, but there likely will be a real estate problem ion densely sited urban markets.

RyanPamplin | June 2, 2013

What happens if battery tech goes to 800 miles

RyanPamplin | June 2, 2013

?

RanjitC | June 2, 2013

gas stations are the best bet

Brian H | June 2, 2013

Gas stations are a horrible bet, and will never happen. There is no reason to force MS drivers to hang around those joints for 30 min.

jerryyang | June 3, 2013

@Brian
thx for discussion.
all I did is suggestion and discussion.

1. Tesla is short of Supercharger locations ( supercharger location is ok for now but far less for the future. nobody buy MS for the long trip. Daily use, that's most people do. for SUV X, 100 station need be ready. people normally use SUV for long trip.if SUV can't go for long trip, they wont buy it. but 100 station can't be enough when mass production car hits the market)
2. Supercharger hardware is expensive (by design you know,they are not cheap. 300k are just for hardware, what's maintain fee? who take care of them? what's land rental fee? )
3. Tesla pays for the electricity (I don't know why you put this one here and i never mention electricity cost)
4. Owners are attracted to a high-volume fast food chain (nobody are attracted to a fast food chain daily but most people do order fast food when they are on the high way for a long trip)

if just staying in home town i don't think most people need supercharge, if the charger station was designed for the people who drive for a long trip sometime someday, then fast food chain is real good candidate to cooperate for cost deduction.

25% profit margin, they need show investor how to avoid additional cost compare with traditional car company.

jerryyang | June 3, 2013

Tesla can also talk to Fry's owner and see if they want to remodel current electric parking to Tesla super charger. nobody was using them for 10 years.

jerryyang | June 27, 2013

Elon just shared this picture in twitter
http://t.co/NNk7MuPo3Y
I think he has already given a thought to cooperate with fast-food chain, such as McDonald. Help them install the solar power and get charger free. it will save lots of cash for Tesla to build the half million super charger station.

TI Sailor | June 27, 2013

As a TSLA shareholder, I'd like TM & Solar City to consider expanding their Walmart partnership. Since SC has already worked with Walmart on over 100 projects, it's a natural expansion with possibly fewer obstacles than other options.

Walmart stores have:
* the square footage to significantly benefit from PV's
* the electrical infrastructure to support superchargers
* lots of excess parking
* 24/7 hours in many locations
* groceries, deli's, Subway or McDonalds restaurants inside
* proximity to major arteries in many cities
* a corporate goal of using renewable energy to reduce utility expenses worldwide by over $1 Billion annually.

It seems to me like a good partnership.

Yes, I know about the "China connection" and the reluctance of many TM forum members to patronize Walmart stores. However, TM needs to be realistic and think long-term. Its future target market is middle class families who often bargain and one-stop shop to make ends meet, both in town and on-the-road. Like it or not, these shoppers bite the bullet and shop at Walmart.

carlgo | June 27, 2013

I previously proposed the idea that Tesla could develop an electrical gas station chain, serving all electrical vehicles with a variety of charging options.

Of course Teslas would charge for free with the latest Supercharging technology, and some stations would have battery changing facilities.

Musk always says he wants other companies to join in with Tesla in every way, so charging up the competition would not be counter to his interests.

No reason they couldn't be like rest stops with bathrooms, mini-marts, kids play areas, dog areas and a nice setting with trees and such. An electrical oasis if you will.

In many places there would be enough area to devote to meaningful solar panel arrays.

Like a normal gas station, it would be a profitable enterprise and would also serve to advance the Tesla brand.

Brian H | June 27, 2013

Location, location, location. Useless for long-distance intercity travelers.

jerryyang | June 28, 2013

@TI Sailor
I think nothing can compare with fast-food chain.
by design, fast food chains are for these people who are in travel model instead of shopping mode, which matches what Tesla need. so you could always find a McDonald in any right place for these people who are traveling. The intensity of Walmart or any business is far too less compare with McDonalds. sure Tesla can talk with Walmart for any cooperate but they also need talk to 100 more company to get the similar intensity as McDonalds could offer, which just wast time and money.
when McDonalds' stock is about $100 today they also need add some fuel. Tesla could bring them a big cake and I think they would like to cooperate too if it does not cost them too much. McDonalds also is a global company cover most countries in Europe and Asia.

tes-s | June 28, 2013

Ever seen the move "supersize me"?? :)

I would really like to see a hotel chain take the initiative to have J1772 chargers at every location (maybe one already has?). Even a 30A charger would be sufficient.

Restaurants and Malls - J1772 80A chargers.

I honestly can't see anyone putting in proprietary superchargers.