FYI, Tesla just posted this to their online store:
$1000 for the adapter (which somehow looks like a portable vacuum cleaner). You need supercharging enabled.
I just saw that too. I'm was trying to decide whether or not I need to jump on it before they sell out but there was not purchase button available on my computer.
Sweet - a lot of folks will be very happy. I will order once available. Not that I need it, but who knows it could come handy one day...
That is great! Of course I wish the price was much cheaper but it is good to have a great option and the best thing after a Supercharger.
Strange though on the pricing they list at the end:
To order before your Model S delivery: $2,400
After Model S delivery: $2,900
On the design page it is $2,000/$2,500 respectively.
I wonder if we just got a sneak peak at an upcoming price increase this winter!!
@bronto - the $2400/$2900 price is to upgrade a 60kWh model to include Supercharger support - it costs more to do so after delivery.
It's actually a good deal, as you are getting a discount.
wrong jat....it is $2,000 to do it at time of order and $2,500 to do it after delivery. See the design page for yourself.
Bronto, I'n afraid that it is you who are mistaken. $ 2400/2900 is for the SC upgrade PLUS the new adapter. Sold separately they would be $ 3000/3500.
It does look like a small vacuum cleaner.
So are you saying you get supercharger access on an S60 plus the adapter for $2,900? That doesn't make sense because if you bought an S60 with supercharging you paid $2,000 for that. Now you come along 6 months after and want the adapter which costs $1,000 ($3,000 total). But if you order supercharging and the adapter at the *same time* 6 months "down the road", you only pay $400 extra for the adapter. That doesn't make sense for Tesla because if I was on the fence about ordering supercharging, it would motivate me to hold off until I am ready to buy the package.
Also, aren't S85/85P folks getting the shaft with this deal? They were forced to pay the $2k for SC and now have to pay $1k to get the adapter. Whereas, someone who ordered SC at the design stage with a S60 could get it for $400 extra.
What am I missing here?
We didn't pay $ 2000 for SC. It is included in the 85kWh base price.
@bronto - what is wrong with you? Nobody is getting the shaft here. $1k is a bargain. OK the some S60 future owners get a little better bundle deal, there is nothing wrong with that. Tesla s a for profit business and not a free soup kitchen for the needy.
How about buying 1 adapter for each CHADEMO charger and sharing the cost like some were doing with the Roadster adapters. Maybe have a lock box with combination lock at each location (or other ideas for controlling access??). Lets brainstorm this for a more cost effective solution.
$1000 for an adapter seems rather pricee to me. After all how often will we need one once the superchargers are in.
And the adapter for Europe?
"CHAdeMO stations charge at the rate of approximately 70 miles of range per hour of charge with locations primarily in the Pacific Northwest."
70 miles of range per hour seems low for 50 kW stations. In fact, that is not much better than a 80 amp HPWC at 61 miles of range per hour.
I suspect that it is not DC to the battery pack. It might be using the twin chargers. The adapter might be so expensive because it is converting the DC CHAdeMO to use the on board chargers. 70 miles of range per hour might be the max of twin chargers. Just speculating on my part.
Well, this is partially helpful, partially disappointing. I did not want to have to be paying for Superchargers that I will rarely use, just to have access to what is becoming a DC charging standard.
Not really left with a good feeling to have that fee tacked onto it.
And by the way, the adapter looks like it has enough lever arm to break the charge port.
I do not think it is possible to use the CHAdeMO adapter on a car that is not SC-enabled. So Tesla has no choice but to bundle the SC activation fee, or you'd be getting it for free.
@jamesm - I don't think it is using the twin chargers, since there is no requirement for twin chargers to use the adapter and the max charge rate with twin chargers is 61.
I think it is DC input which explains the SC-enabled requirement. My guess is Tesla is limiting it to 70 miles of charge per hour (about 25kW?) to protect the batteries.
I'm thinking however the DC charge is tapered as the batteries become charged at a SC does not work with CHAdeMO and the adapter, so Tesla is limiting charging to 25kW.
That is a lot better than a 6kW Chargepoint charger, but it comes at a cost (the adapter). At least it is an option.
CHAdeMO is a complex standard, much more complicated than J1772. $1000 for the adapter is a reasonable price.
This thing looks very bottom heavy, imagine plugging the bottom portion into the CHAdeMO plug with a heavy cable hanging from it... how is this not going to put undue stress on the small charge port? I foresee cracked and broken charge ports in the future...
@AmpedRealtor: I'm curious about that too. I stopped by a Blink station to use the J1772 and the adjacent CHADeMO plug is gigantic (reminds me of a fire or aircraft refueling hose) with really thick cabling.
Shop: I agree its a complex protocol. Also impressed that Tesla made an adapter at all given the complexity.
How many people are going to shell out $1000 for it, or is it just to silence the pundits who thought it was going to be a $75 outlet adapter?
The price for 21" wheels is higher now too. In July it was 3500, then 4500, now 6500. These prices are for after delivery from the accessories store and do not include the tires.
@soma - since CHAdeMO is for DC charging, I don't believe anyone thought that the adapter wouldn't use the same DC pathways provided by the Supercharger option.
I don't know the details of the CHAdeMO voltage/current options, but is possible you only get 45kW at the highest voltage setting (just like you can only get 10kW per charger in the Model S if you have 250V supply).
Are there any people planning to buy this who can identify a specific location with an existing CHAdeMO charging station they plan to use with it? (I presume that between paying for the adaptor, paying for the electricity, and getting slower charging than at a Supercharger, the only reason to use this adaptor instead of a Supercharger is if there's a CHAdeMO station somewhere where there's no Supercharger. I'm also left wondering if additional Supercharger installations are therefore a better idea than this adaptor.)
Superchargers are fast and free.
CHAdeMO requires $1000 adapter and is slow.
I vote for more supercharger locations, and 80amp J1772 chargers which are almost as fast as CHAdeMO and require not adapter.
I vote for the 80 amp J1772
The Superchargers get us between major metro areas, the CHAdeMO charger gets us a faster charge once we get there. I own a ModS and a CHAdeMO capable LEAF. Having used it at my local Nissan dealer for the LEAF, I have to agree that it is a big heavy plug and will create a significant mechanical strain dangling from the ModS charge port. No thanks to that and the $1000 TM is charging for it.
The limited Power (25kW) and the steep price makes the adapter very unreasonable especially if we have 3phase charging up to 22kW in Europe.
Or probably Tesla wants to kill CHAdeMo Standard with this policy. TM has stet the mark for high capacity batteries which allows charging at SC-rates so 50kW CAdeMO will soon be obsolete. By the time other manufacturers come up with larger batteries the SC network will be very dense and instead of building their own network they will have to contract with TM. OK for me- the first one deserves the bigger part of the cake.
This might be an effort by Tesla to make CHAdeMo seem limited compared to the Superchargers. It they are limited to only 25 kW (70 mrph) then CHAdeMo looks inferior to Supercharger.
The adapter likely only has cable rated for that amount of power. If it allowed 50 kW it would probably melt.
The Nissan Leaf really only uses 25 kW or less. Even on those 50 kW CHAdeMo locations, it rapidly tapers to lower than 25 kW. At least, that is what I have read. I have not used it personally.
I doubt it's some kind of plot on the part of Tesla. I agree with tes-s that the limit on charge rate is probably due to the lack of 'intelligence' at chademo stations to taper charge as the battery gets full.
It is my understanding that the car controls the charge rate, not the CHAdeMo station. So I believe the car would control the taper rate also.
That may be the case. I still think there are any number of good engineering reasons to explain a reduced charge rate using chademo with the adapter, unless the adapter cost $5000 or more.
We have a decent number of Chademo stations in the Phoenix area but they are totally useless to me because my P85 has more than enough range for "local" driving. There are none of these chargers to get me away from AZ - which is really what I want to be able to do.
The approved Yuma SC was just delayed until 2014 - a move I don't understand at all.
mrspaghetti: it is not intelligence but cost. The CHAdeMO stations are designed to charge Nissan Leaves because that was the only car to use it. Same reason 30A J1772 are more common than 70A and 80A.
The CHAdeMO stations need to be just as smart as a Tesla Super Charger. The car asks for a certain power from the station and if the station doesn't respond properly, your battery fries. The built-in AC "chargers" act as a buffer to protect the batteries. With DC charging, the charger is really in the station and feeds directly into the battery.
Since the AC -> DC charger is in the station, if it costs $1500 to add a second 10kW charger to your car, it would cost that much to add more capacity to each station. Why would existing stations spend an extra $7500 each when no car could use it up until now.
This is good news...
Japan.. I am thinking of you as I type this...
Thank you Tesla. Give us options. Let us decide what we need and what we want.
CHAdeMO frustration.. your days are numbered!
IIRC, the nominal voltage of the Tesla Model S battery pack is somewhere around 400V. I think the CHAdeMO standard may be designed for a maximum of about 500V at some particular amperage.
If the Tesla adaptor is not providing the full wattage one might expect from CHAdeMO, it may be that the reason is that a Tesla charging from CHAdeMO simply reduces the voltage while drawing the same maximum amperage that CHAdeMO supports, thus not getting all of the wattage that might be possible. (This is the best you can do if the main DC conductors in the adaptor are just a passive cable, with all of the complexity in the signaling paths only.)
If that's the case, there's probably the potential for a DC-DC converter in a hypothetical adaptor that Tesla has choosen not to build which would convert the 500V at CHAdeMO maximum amperage to 400V at slightly higher amperage, but presumably that would be significantly more expensive to build.
@Galve: CHAdeMO days numbered. Maybe in the US (but I wouldn't bet on it). In Europe, there are already a staggering 900 CHAdeMO chargers - versus 6 SC chargers. They are expanding faster than Tesla plans to expand their network over the next few years. And they are planning on upgrading them to 100kW as soon as there is sufficient demand. That would bring them right into SC territory.
Maybe there are technical reasons why Tesla provides a $1000 CHAdeMO adapter that still only transfers 40% of the available power. But I can't help but think that Tesla doesn't want to provide the "demand" that CHAdeMO needs to upgrade their existing chargers to 100kW. Because then, at least in Europe and Asia, it will be the vendor-specific Tesla SC network that becomes obsolete - if it even gets off the ground to begin with.
I think you misunderstood my intent...
There were numerous posts in this forum about Tesla’s ambivalence to the CHAdeMO standard and plenty of frustration. I’m saying that the frustration will now subside. Not the CHAdeMO standard.
Sorry for the confusion.
Personally I am against proprietary standards of any kind, even if they are “superior” than the alternative emerging standard. Tesla is emerging as the big fish in the little BEV pond, so the "Supercharger" standard could be considered as the emerging leader, but I still wish they would not set themselves apart needlessly from the ones that came before them.
$1000.00 in store, plus you must have supercharger enabled. I have a 60kw with supercharger enabled, that cost $2000.00 at time of purchase. To add supercharging after is $2500.00, but only $2900.00 with the adapter, so only $400.00 extra for the CHAdeMO adapter. I think to be fair to early adopters/existing owners, the cost should be $400.00. If not $400.00 at least not the full $1000.00. I would have added this when buying the car if it was available.
Galve - from what I've read on the decision, it looks like TM wanted to encourage the entire ev industry and would have adopted an existing standard if possible. However, the technology they ended up implementing solved the two biggest hurdles to ev adoption - charging speed and range. Perhaps the range issue would have been amenable to existing standards. However, none of the prior standards would provide the kind of speed that we have in the SC's - a critical factor for long distance ev travel.
We all, including TM management, would prefer a universal standard, and the TM format is now as proprietary as it gets, but it is the price we pay for speed. We don't see Nissan, Renault, Fiat, or even partners like Toyota and MB adopting the TM format, and I doubt it will happen, which leaves us, unfortunately, with a ghettoized ev user community - those with TM technology and those without.
Because TM went with a nonstandard format (again for the right reason), it is incumbent for it to provide reverse adapter technology to allow our cars to work anywhere, with anything. TM is doing this. My fear is that we will end up being seen as elitist rich folks - think of the Leaf owners' frustration driving past a Tesla Supercharger, knowing that the Tesla can charge anywhere, including at the friendly Nissan dealers, but they aren't welcome in Teslas's house. Some problems have no solutions, but TM is doing the best it can with the hand it holds.
Yup, and I would also like to add that the Tesla plug is simple, sleek and elegant. The same pins carry DC or AC power, the car can switch their routing intelligently. Has anybody noticed how complex the charging "hood" is on a Leaf? It has 1 plug for DC and a totally different one for AC charging.
Even CHAdeMO's competitor, the SAE standard uses a giant combo connector. I wouldn't mind if the standards bodies would take notice and adopt Tesla's connector.
If Tesla did what was popular instead of right, the Model S would have a max range of 100 miles, have a charging "hood" and a 640x480 10" hard to use touch screen.
all fair points. but your analysis omits one not-so-little elephant from the mix...
with all those specs you mention above, the Model S would probably cost a fair amount less to purchase. Doesn't make it "right" but some things are not really a matter of "right" or "popular"
Positioning the model S as a "premium" product was a brilliant move on Elon's part and the proprietary (read "closed") nature of the supercharger access echoes this ethos.
Elon understands that new technologies are adopted (and paid for) first by people and entities with deep pockets and income to dispose, and after some sort of tipping-point by the populace. (Notice the world Popular in word Populace.. that is not a coincidence.)
Personally I would love to see the new BEV Mercedes with the Tesla battery tech / connector be given access to the supercharger network but it will never happen. it is not a "premium" product and has no place sitting at the Tesla table as it is currently set.
An argument can be made that for some additional fee SC access can be enabled, but as you pile on the options, and the costs of the Mercedes BEV start to rise, at a certain point it makes sense to just buy a Model S and be done with it.
I don't think you'll see many Leafs driving by Harris. Gilroy and Fremont have alternative chargers a well as TM HQ with Leafs charging. Some recent permits require TM/site owner to install also L2 chargers. Key is to put the basic high power grid connection on a site, adding additional plugs isn't that hard.
Has there been any official press release from Tesla on the CHAdeMO adapter other than the gear page? Is it possible that the adapter is not limited and the 70 mph is a typo?
I don't understand, why are we concerned with Leaf owners being upset that the Model S can charge everywhere? That's a problem for Nissan to solve. I'm not sure how that has anything to with Tesla owners and the supercharging network. Similarly, why do I care if someone considers me "elitist rich folk" because I drive an expensive car that had charging stations built just for it? I'm not rich, but I don't mind if someone thinks that I am. Ultimately what people think is not my issue to solve.
People who buy an Android phone don't have access to iTunes. That's too bad and something that happens when you don't buy an iOS product. The same parallel is true for the superchargers. I don't see Apple opening up iTunes to non-Apple devices simply because owners of non-Apple devices feel left out.
It's not our job as Tesla owners to ensure the happiness of those who bought into a different platform. Maybe Nissan should have invested in its own network and maybe Leaf buyers should have expected more from Nissan. If they get upset every time they drive by a supercharger, then they should channel that anger at Nissan - not at Tesla or its customers.
I think that CHAdeMO adapters is a stop-gap device that adds flexibility now. The trend is going towared J1772.
I think pricee2 has a good Idea live a block away from a Chademo charger in southern California near the 15 and 210 freeway where there is currently no Superchargers. the Chademo charger is 61 miles away from the it would be a nice stop to charge on the way to Vegas or on the way back . I would consider buying adapter and sharing it with anybody that would help share the cost.
I think pricee2 has a good Idea live a block away from a Chademo charger in southern California near the 15 and 210 freeway where there is currently no Superchargers. the Chademo charger is 61 miles away from the Barstow SC, and it would be a nice stop to charge on the way to Vegas or on the way back . I would consider buying adapter and sharing it with anybody that would help share the cost.
We organized our NW Roadster adapter share by using the regional forums here and at TMC. Also, that how they are building out a new regional J1772 network in a similar fashion. You can sponsor charging stations too.
Someone else may have already pointed this out - but just in case...
On the Tesla Online store, the description for this adapter has been changed to indicate a 150 mi/hr rate of charge:
Take advantage of CHAdeMO’s network of 50 kW charging stations by enabling onboard hardware and purchasing an external adapter. CHAdeMO stations charge at the rate of approximately 150 miles of range per hour of charge with locations primarily in the Pacific Northwest.
This adapter is specifically for North American Model S. A separate adapter is required for European and Asian Model S. For Model S without Supercharging enabled, onboard hardware must be activated to use the CHAdeMO adapter. Every 85 kWh Model S is already Supercharging enabled.