This is interesting...
* BMW and Tesla executives seek ways to promote electric cars
* Meeting was held on Wednesday
* BMW declines to comment in detail about nature of talks (Adds detail on charging stations)
If I were considering the i3 or i8, this announcement might put me on the fence.
Electric 3 and 5. My dream!
Maybe GenIII will be a cooperative effort :)
I've never owned a BMW and never will be. It just does not excite me enough to spend that much (purchase and maintenance) for that kind of car. That said any corporation between the two companies could only mean good for everybody other than non-EV auto manufacturers.
Oh to co-produce a car with Porsche would be something else.
Carik, I'm with you.
My other car is a 2013 Porsche Boxster S. I'd love to have the engineers that did that redesign working with Tesla.
If Porsche were ever to collaborate with Tesla, I hope they leave out anyone affiliated with PCNA. Look at what they put this Porsche customer through:
I'd never buy anything made by that company after what they did to this guy before they finally wised up and did the right thing.
I think Nick's videos are great. I hope he does a Model S review if he finds one around Southport, Connecticut.
Electric 3-series would sell like crazy. I think every 20-30 year old with their first career job goes out and purchases one.
Have BMW use their own factories to build them. It's a proven design and they could use the gigafactory batteries to power them. Give it a 150 mile range and put chargers in every city and you'd sell a million of them.
The chargers could charge 100 miles in 30 minutes and you wouldn't have too many backups at them.
I'd hate it because I had a BMW and it wasn't a great experience. The service was so expensive and cold.
BMW: So... We saw these posts on your Forums...
Tesla: Yeah, so...?
BMW: Well, a lot of them were from someone called 'Red Sage'... Does that guy work for you?
Tesla: Uh... No.
BMW: He keeps saying you guys are gonna kick our [ALPHA] with your Generation III.
Tesla: Well, we can neither confirm, nor deny...
BMW: We believe him.
Tesla: Oh, really...?
Tesla: So... Why are you here?
BMW: We know everyone is laughing at the i3...
Tesla: ...and the i8?
BMW: Don't remind us... Can you help us make them correctly?
Tesla: Sure. No problem. We'll get right on that! Thanks for coming! Nice talking to you!
The only problem with a BMW electric is you still have to go to a dealership to buy the car. That alone is enough for me to always buy a Tesla.
You can always order one online. For service you'd still have to visit a stealership.
"and the i8?"
Not if Tesla acts as the 'dealer'...
Red - LOL! Nicely done. :)
Enabler and dealer... :)
They came to kiss the Godfather's ring. "You don't come with respect, but consider this advice a gift on my patent freeing day."
carlk wrote, "They still make more profit per car for the conventional cars than for the i3."
At least, until they dump their dealers for Tesla Motors instead...
Tesla: I think we have a resolution for your i3 problem.
BMW: Oh? What's that?
Tesla: First you grant Tesla Motors a franchise license, making us an 'independent franchised dealership' of BMW.
Tesla: Well, none of your existing dealerships want to sell the i3 anyway, do they?
BMW: No, they don't...
Tesla: So the instant all their inventory is gone, and the dealers don't ask you for any more, lower the price by $5000...
BMW: Hunh? Wait... What?!?
Tesla: Gimme a sec here, OK? Look, you lower the price, and offer them for sale through your website...
BMW: I still don't...
Tesla: You deliver the cars to our Service Centers, and we drop them off to your Customers.
BMW: Yeah, but...
Tesla: And YOU keep all the money.
BMW: ... Oh. ... That could work.
Tesla: This way, there is no inventory sitting around anywhere... You get to sell an EV you actually make decent money on... The public gets a product that after Tax Incentives is actually worth it... And we see more EVs on the road.
I think this about battery production and the need to dramatically increase it.
With the release of the patents...and BMW and Tesla talking...my dream would be...Superchargers at every BMW dealership, open to both e-BMWs and Tesla drivers at small surcharge.
"With the release of the patents...and BMW and Tesla talking...my dream would be...Superchargers at every BMW dealership"
That might be a possibility. I don't see what else BMW could bring to their potential partnership that might be of interest for Tesla. Except for substantial increase of supercharger roll out speed.
It could have been supplying batteries to BMW, but to that Elon apparently advised them to build their own Gigafactory.
if bmw were to scrap their i3 and i8, it would take them another 3 years to design/test anything that can compete with tesla.
until i see other companies announce their own giga battery factory, this is all for nothing. one gigafactory can only support about 500k cars.... if tesla produces at max capacity, it would still only be 0.5% of the global yearly production of cars....
lets say bmw comes out tomorrow and says they will design a new BEV and a gigafactory, that would still be shit volume compared to ICE!
WE WOULD NEED 200 GIGAFACTORIES to totally replace all the ICE car production! that is totally insane, 1 trillion dollars on just battery factories!!!
AI1 - As I mentioned in another thread, BMW brings the potential for a carbon fiber body (ala i8) on a Tesla drivetrain, greatly lowering the weight and therefore increasing range and performance. IMHO this would be a killer car and about the only thing that might entice me to sell my Model S for another car (as long as I did not have to deal with a stealership).
eddiemoy - North America consumes ~857,000 barrels of oil per year. At $100 a barrel, that is $857,000,000 per year. Thus, the cost of oil used just in North America is almost 1 trillion dollars per years. In this context, a trillion dollars for 200 gigafactories is a bargain.
@mdemetri, in that other thread I asked about the safety issue with carbon fiber - I know squat about mechanical engineering, but I expect with steel and boron, the MS would be much safer, no?
mdemetri - Unfortunately don't know enough about carbon fiber. But think BMW hasn't quite invented carbon fiber. It's been around in aviation but so far has failed to replace any meaningful quantities of aluminium. Might have some significant downsides.
NKYTA - Carbon fiber is much much stronger than steel, despite being much much lighter. See video below (seeing is believing). It is used in Formula 1 cars for a reason.
BMW did not invent carbon fiber but they have put it into the frames of both the i3 and i8. This is a knowledge advantage that would benefit Tesla greatly.
Carbon fiber composite is the state of the art for strength to weight ratio.
Interestingly, it is not the clear winner for crash safety, because of the way it yields when stressed. Aluminum is so malleable, it can absorb tremendous kinetic energy as it collapses in a crash.
The very cool carbon fiber tub in the i3/i8, is good at limiting cabin intrusion. Despite this, I'm fairly certain the Model S is much better at absorbing impact, and reducing G force. When the BMW crash data is published, I think it will confirm that the Model is actually by far the safer car.
eddiemoy noted, "that is totally insane, 1 trillion dollars on just battery factories!!!"
And now you know why the Livery Stable Industry didn't invest in the fledgling Automobile Industry. It seemed like an absolute folly to waste money that way. So they didn't.
Would be excellent with a cooperation to sell more EVs in the world... BMW do truly build great cars. Tesla please ask for the seats from the M5... My current seats dont really go with the handling and performance of my P85+ :-)
Hmmm, Tesla is not a dealer, its a healer.
"North America consumes ~857,000 barrels of oil per year. At $100 a barrel, that is $857,000,000 per year"
sorry, but something is wrong with your math... 857k barrels @ $100 a barrel is $85,000,000. that is $85 million...
a quick search on the internet reveals that we use ~18m barrels a day, 6.57b barrels a year. would come out to 657 billion dollars at $100 a barrel.
not such a blow out number. but if you look at it long term, like 10 years? maybe...
I was going to comment, we use 19 Million barrels PER DAY in the US alone.
World uses about 93 MILLION barrels PER DAY, wow, just wow.
I am glad using all this oil has NO impact on the environment, per GOP, Rick Perry for one believes that.
Considering total US GDP is 15.68 trillion 657 billion is not such a small number either. 4% of GDP.
And that's price of crude. If you consider the whole cycle from extracting to burning not exactly value added activity it can easily come up to 10% of GDP.
Another way to look at it only in the US each year we may be burning combined GDP of 90% of the world economies.
"I am glad using all this oil has NO impact on the environment, per GOP, Rick Perry for one believes that".
To be fair that's not quite what they say.
I hope Tesla gets a piece of the carbon fiber action from BMW. BMW can help lighten the car and fix the Kia seats, Tesla can assist BMW with battery and Supercharger tech.
To the people saying other manufacturers should use Superchargers....that won't happen until others build a battery than can take the 100 kWh blow from the chargers. It all starts with the battery.
I'm pretty sure that a big hunk of the weight of the Tesla Model S is strictly the battery pack. The car is ~4,700 LBS. If ~1200 of that is the battery back, that means without it, you have a 3,500 LBS car -- about the weight of a Lexus ES. Add the weight penalty of a V8 engine, a few luxury items, exhaust, and various other components... It would still weigh less than a BMW 7-Series by two or three hundred pounds, so it is already a rather efficient package for its overall size.
Even if they were to use a carbon fibre interior cell, and it lowered the weight by as much as 500 LBS, the range would not really increase that much. Maybe 25-40 miles or so, using the same 85 kWh battery pack, because it would still be a BIG car. Plus, as mentioned before, that might compromise the inherent safety of the current design. What we really need is a higher capacity battery pack, that weighs less.
As for the seats... You really only need the ballooned up side bolsters when you have a clutch, brake, accelerator, hand brake, stick shift, and only one hand on the steering wheel. That way the seats catch you, because there you cannot brace your lateral motion yourself. In the current configuration the only thing I'd ask for is the ability to accommodate 5-point seat belts. ;-)