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Red or Blue?

Red or Blue?

We have had a number of purchaser polls asking about our age, our demographics, our location, etc. I have been quite curious about our politics, but I worried that a controversial subject like politics (or religion?) might be unwelcome. However, a couple of threads have now broken the ice by discussing the presidential debates and government tax policies. And we are, after all, entering the Silly Season. So I thought I'd ask: are you a tree-hugging liberal, a fat-cat conservative, or a wishy-washy independent? Do you favor Obama, Romney, or someone else? Please keep the commentary and argument to a minimum. I'm really just trying to get an idea of how we compare to the population at large. Non-US purchasers are welcome to vote.

I'll start:

I'm a Democrat favoring Obama.

Carl Barlev | October 24, 2012

+1 Mark E

Captain_Zap | October 24, 2012

@ Mark E

Can I borrow that?

Aleksandyr | October 24, 2012

I have a blue roof and solar panels. I hate the fact that we allow special interests to fund the candidates and that corporations our 'people'. Ethically the system is broken. As a physician I get grief over accepting a PEN from a drug company. How can we let our politicians accept millions of dollars to fund their campaigns and expect to have the interest of the country in mind? The best candidate the GOP can come up with is a rich CEO, out of touch with america, corporate front man. The choice is a moral choice. Obama has made the best of a disaster, and we are the better for him.

Mark E | October 25, 2012

@ Captain_Zap: feel free.

R3dStang66 | October 30, 2012

Blue car color for me =)

Green house solar city

Like obama's energy policy good for tesla.

hbh24 | October 30, 2012

Trying to decide between black or blue car.
Trying to put solar panels on my roof but I would have to remove several trees to make them worthwhile.
Republican
I am strongly in favor of Obama so perhaps I am a RINO, Republican In Name Only.
Romney is a salesman and scares me.

vouteb | October 30, 2012

UK based: Christie

Richard30 | October 30, 2012

Sig Red Perf
Red voter for Romney.

My support of Tesla is not political. I love the tech and think it is a great product. In the end, that will determine if it is successful.

Mel. | October 30, 2012

R3d, what policies are you referring to? Most of us were hoping he had or would develop an energy policy... All he has is support ethanol.

Captain_Zap | October 30, 2012

Blue. No, uh Yel-- Aauuuuuuuugh!

jinglehyme | October 30, 2012

Blue S in a Blue State. Solar on roof. Sunny SoCal, we love you.

What republican buys a Tesla anyway? Cadillac has a new EV coming next year, it will be a flashy, plasticky, 100% republican machine. And will look perfect next to your Escalade or Hummer - Do us all a favor and wait for that one.

An Aside -
At least Romney is just a stupid mouthpiece for the corporate machine. Christy is fat and stupid, like to see him squeeze that girth into a Roadster - ;}

seidste1 | October 30, 2012

Independent and voting for Romney

$21 trillion in debt is crazy, pretty sure we will be $26 trillion in debt after for more years of Obama.

Hope and change only fools me once. Can't run on that one twice.

seidste1 | October 30, 2012

Four more years (not for), that is, and a Blue model S

seidste1 | October 30, 2012

Damn, I thought there would be no math...... $16 trillion now and $21 trillion in 4 more years

TINO F | October 30, 2012

Romney for sure. The last 4 years have painfully omitted the obvious areas of focus. Whomever wins, has a tough job ahead of them, and has no influence on my car purchase.

goelec1640 | October 30, 2012

Red, Obama needs to go!

GoTeslaChicago | October 30, 2012

Although I prefer to think of myself as an Independent thinker, I'm pretty blue. However I would seriously consider voting for a republican, if I could find one (just one!) who didn't say he was going to lower taxes and balance the budget!

Honesty, and the ability to do math would be my first criteria for any candidate!

And please, the excuse that everyone else is doing the same won't do. I've already tried that one out on a State Trooper!

jinglehyme | October 30, 2012

A Tesla owner voting for Romney is like a Christian voting for Satan!

Have you all forgotten how many times the Romney Machine has dissed all things Tesla. He is so ill advised and uninformed. (seriously, he"ll say anything - did you hear him tell Ohio that all Jeep production was moving to China?) Lies, Lies, Lies.

And talk about the debt .... Much of the current debt springs from the Bush era war mongering. Have you forgotten that the republicans got us into this. Milking the surplus for all it was worth. Cheney and the oil fat cats laughing all the way to the bank. Seriously, You guys believe all this spin and crap? I'm happy to pay my share and have worked for every dollar I have. Including the 92K I'm plopping down on My S next month. No trust fund here. Just hard work, research, education.

Someone Has to Pay for the Replibcan Bush Era Wars

Mark K | October 31, 2012

I am a nonpartisan. I like to think of my values as socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

The two parties are now primarily about vanquishing their opponent at the expense of getting anything done, All we hear is acrimony about how bad the other guy is.

This current arrangement is unsustainable and needs a radical redesign to incentivize people to work together.

It is absurd to go along with all positions of one party's platform (even those we strongly disagree with), in order to assemble a big enough battering ram to force an issue through. That's morally and intellectually corrupt.

My Euopean in-laws absolutely love Obama because they feel he thinks like they do.

On the other hand, they all complain about their own economies and look wistfully at the relative prosperity and free choice we enjoy here.

Because of the way the current system works, for my vote to have any influence, I have to pick one of these two guys - even though I may disagree with both on many issues.

In complicated, multidimensional situations, I look for the centerpiece issue that differentiates the choices and I decide based on that.

To me, the issue that defines this election is our economic future. Productivity is the source of our power to address whatever problems may confront our times. Without prosperity, we can't improve anything, and everyone is worse off. Without growth, our confidence and ability diminishes, and we are screwed.

I've spent a lot of time in Europe and I love it, but I could not imagine conducting my business or making a living there. My wife's family in Denmark pays 220% tax on new cars (except EVs!). My MB SL costs $350K in Denmark, and their are probably 5 in the entire country. An iPhone costs nearly $1,000. That's crazy.

People get socialized medicine and give up with more than half their pay to pay for it, even at modest income. Yet what do people increasingly do? They opt for private insurance to exercise choice instead of using the state-assigned physician.

Nothing is free in life, but some things are certainly a better deal. Socialized medicine is simply something you pay for another way, but you do pay for it, and you give up some of your power to choose.

I think President Obama believes with all his heart that the Eupoean model is better, and it's the paradigm we should follow.

From what I've seen over the last 25 years, it really doesn't seem to work better. People are poorer and less free.

On our current course, we will owe 20 trillion dollars in 36 months. No one will repay this but us ... and our kids. This is voluntary self-destruction.

The government contributes almost no revenue from its operation. Instead, we as taxpayers are the only source of resources to fuel the government.

When things get this serious, i believe it's appropriate for us as voters to ask change in the status quo. One way to do this is to ask for new leadership, and to hold them accountable for their mission.

For this reason, I'm not voting for Obama.

Judging from the forum chatter, this is not the cool thing to do.

But acts of conscience are often at odds with fashion, and you do them just the same.

BTW, it baffles me that Romney keeps mentioning Tesla, I think he doesn't know enough about what distinguishes them to realize they are the very kind of growth we so desperately need.

Brian H | October 31, 2012

GTC;
Acquaint yourself with the Laffer curve.
http://www.laffercenter.com/arthur-laffer/the-laffer-curve/
There's arithmetic, and then there's economics. And a balance point.

Timo | October 31, 2012

I think President Obama believes with all his heart that the Eupoean model is better, and it's the paradigm we should follow.

What do you think is "Eupoean model"? EU is not a country, we have all kinds of "models" here. There are commonalities like good healthcare for everyone and not only for rich, but it is not same system everywhere.

mrspaghetti | October 31, 2012

@Captain_Zap Lol

mrspaghetti | October 31, 2012

@Timo

There are commonalities like good healthcare for everyone and not only for rich

You consider waiting lists for CT scans and other medical services to be "good healthcare"?

And contrary to what you may believe from media reports, everyone (not just the rich) gets health care in the US who needs it. And it's pretty good.

Mel. | October 31, 2012

Mark K, great post. We have an individual in Floroda, that is running a political add that explains that going to socialism will make the rich poorer ( that is in vogue) but it will also make everyone else, except the party leaders ,poorer.. .. Tesla is going to be very successful, and Romney will probably end up buying one

GoTeslaChicago | October 31, 2012

Brian H | OCTOBER 31, 2012
GTC;
Acquaint yourself with the Laffer curve.
http://www.laffercenter.com/arthur-laffer/the-laffer-curve/
There's arithmetic, and then there's economics. And a balance point.

I looked at the link you provided, and at least on the surface it appears pretty balanced.

Here is a very relevant and revealing quote for the site you cited:

"Importantly, the Laffer Curve does not say whether a tax cut will raise or lower revenues, nor does it predict that any and all tax rate reductions would necessarily bring in more total revenues. Instead it says that tax rate reductions will always result in a smaller loss in revenues than one would have expected when relying only on the static estimates of the previous tax base. "

In my book a smaller loss in revenue still means a bigger deficit.

GoTeslaChicago | October 31, 2012

should be from (not for) the cite you cited

GoTeslaChicago | October 31, 2012

Correcting errors is hopeless! I made a new one while correcting the previous one.

jbunn | October 31, 2012

We've done the "supply side thing" for over 30 years and the results are in. Reading David Stockman's analysis on his trickle down economics experiment is a good place to start.

Many of us have, or have had buisinesses at one time or another. Does anyone wake up with extra money in the account and say "I think I'll go hire someone and burn off this excess cash!" Perhaps I'm the exception, but I never have. There have been times when I've faced excess demand and have decided to bring on extra people.

If you toss more tax cut money at me, I'll thank you and stick it in my pocket. If I have more customers with money in their pockets, only then will I consider hiring. Supply side economics needs to be balanced with a healthy dose of Demand side economics to be a healthy system.

nickjhowe | October 31, 2012

@GTC - I agree with the premise of the Laffer curve, but as Brian H alludes, the actual curve doesn't look like that. It is almost certainly skewed rather than symmetrical, and almost certainly not a hyperbolic curve.

But - I agree with the premise nonetheless.

Labrat | October 31, 2012

Yes to Obama. Also blue Tesla.In Red state Florida.

DarrellH | October 31, 2012

We have a Sig Red but are voting for Obama because we remember a full 12 years back. Obama is not the problem. Look beyond the past 4 years before you vote.

Captain_Zap | October 31, 2012

@tesla.mrspaghet

You said:
"And contrary to what you may believe from media reports, everyone (not just the rich) gets health care in the US who needs it. And it's pretty good."

Apparently it must differ from state to state because I have found this to not be true. This could be why there are red states and blue states and so many different perspectives on issues like this.

digitaltim | October 31, 2012

Definitely purple...

Mel. | October 31, 2012

Jbunn, please tell me who these supply siders were. Now we know that Reagan was, but Bush ( the daddy) called that voodoo economics! Now Bush ( the daddy) raised taxes as soon as he was elected and governed like a democrat, he even went to war for no reason, except to show he was macho . Pretty much like Obama and his surge...

Now Clinton was super, but then you have W , no supply sider there .

Captain_Zap | October 31, 2012

Read my lips... no NEW taxes.

Teoatawki | October 31, 2012

Call me gray, when it comes to voting, I'm colorblind.

"I met those of our society who had votes in the ensuing election, and advised them:

1) To vote, without fee or reward, for the person they judged most worthy.

2) To speak no evil of the person they voted against.

3) To take care their spirits were not sharpened against those that voted on the other side?"

      -- John Wesley.

jeffrey.lea | October 31, 2012

I am looking forward to getting my red Signature Series soon. I am a Republican that believes in lower taxes and a smaller government. I do believe that solar and electric cars are the way to go and that tax credits are helpful. I am a Republican environmentalist, a true conservative. Anyway, I love what Tesla is doing and can't wait to get my car. Should have it in a week or two.

ak-tually55 | October 31, 2012

Mark E and jinglehyme, you are my heroes! This forum question was actually posted by Tesla, so all who will be voting for Romney (oh did I mention that you either have short-term memory, like liars, stand in line with oil companies, or just want to take every single dollar not paid in taxes to the grave instead of trying to contribute to the society as a whole?) will get your reservations transferred to Cadillac Escalade EV that, you guessed it right, somehow runs on gas and is made by GM and Exxon Mobil. People do not forget EV-1 fate.

Obama is far away from being perfect, but to vote for Republicaaaaans and what they stand for (pretty much against everything that is reasonable - healthcare, education, environmental policies) should be a shame for a Tesla owner.

And, while this has perhaps little to do with Tesla, folks in CA please support Proposition 37 for mandatory labeling of GMOs.

Proud Model S reservation holder

bfudge | October 31, 2012

My ideal party: Business acumen of republicans, social philosophy of democrats. Until that party is created I will vote blue.

jbunn | October 31, 2012

Mel,

The guys around the dinner table with Dr Laffer the night he did the back of the napkin sketch were Gerald Ford, Donald Rumsfeld, and Dick Cheney. Cheney as you recall said "Ronald Reagan proved defecits don't matter". Rumsfeld famously said before the Iraq war when asked how long will it last said "Five days or five weeks or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last any longer than that". Those were the midwifes at it's birth. David Stockman was a famous champeon of Suppy Side economics, and is now outspokenly critical of it. Bush I did indeed call it "Voodoo Economics" and he was correct. If you recall, he said that when he was running AGAINST Ronald Reagan in the primary in 1980.

Also recall that the Reagan tax cuts of 1981 blew a much larger hole in the defecit than the supply siders expected. Reagan was forced starting the following year to raise taxes and he raised them a total of 11 times over the next 7 years, closing about half his origional cuts, but leaving us with a tripled debt and a permanent structural defecit. Since Reagan, we've had massive defecits except under Clinton, and when Bush II came in he went back to tax cutting, and the defecit exploded again. Bush was very much a supply sider.

Laffer's work is misrepresented as "if you cut taxes, you will raise tax revenue because more economic activity will occur and the taxes collected at the lower rate from more people will be larger". Laffer never argued that. It's a misuse of his theory.

Regarding Obama, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were going on for years before Obama became president. 8 years for Afghanistan and 6 for Iraq. We're out of Iraq, and we're trying to get out of Afghanistan, but it's harder work to end a fight than it is to start one.

ak-tually55 | November 1, 2012

At last, Romney releases his tax plan:

www.romneytaxplan.com

Longhorn92 | November 1, 2012

I am a true independent and haven't fully decided who I will vote for next week. In fact, I am of the mindset that both of the candidates might do a pretty decent job as President (which is something I haven't thought in the recent past).

That being said, I don't see how my purchase of a Model S has anything to do with my party affiliation or political views. Even if I think that one party or the other does not care one bit about clean energy or EVs, that is not the only issue we face as a Country, so I would never place my vote based on a single issue.

I also do not understand how politics seem to polarize and anger so many people. Look at any political thread, including this one, and you will quickly observe how even logical, intelligent and educated people become vitriolic when "discussing" politics. Why and how do we let these politicians and political parties get under our skin so much?

Here's hoping that whoever gets elected next week will be the best President we have ever had (regardless of whether or not I voted for him).

Alex K | November 1, 2012

Sorry, but I wish these political type discussions were in the General forum not the Model S forum! @DouglasR maybe you could move this thread over to the General forum?

Mel. | November 1, 2012

Jbunn, are you serious, or just being a democrat? We are out of Iraq, with 17,ooo. Troops there.. We are trying to get out of Afganistan... You must be kidding. What in the world are we trying to do? Is this the same as watching the Ambassador get murdered in Libya, - and stopping anyone from helping rescue these brave Americans......

DouglasR | November 1, 2012

@Alex K,

Sorry, but this thread was intended to poll Model S purchasers. The General forum would not reach that audience.

I did specifically ask, however, that commentary and argument be kept at a minimum. The idea was to get a sense of how Model S purchasers compare politically to the general population, much the way others have polled for age, demographics, current automobile, and reasons for buying. Given the topic, I suppose that was too much to hope for.

jbunn | November 1, 2012

Douglas, We are bored and fidegting, waiting for our cars...

Mel, If you're interested in lableing me, insulting me, or trying to get up an argument, I'm not interested. If you'd like to fact check me, Please, by all means procede. And when the topic turns to Libya I'll be happy to discuss that, but you better make sure you have your facts on that one, and I can already tell you don't.

Mel. | November 1, 2012

Jbunn, I thought we were having a discussion.. I did not insult you, I will not respond to your comments in the future. I have enjoys your thoughts, and posts .. I would like to hear your take on Libya.

jbunn | November 1, 2012

Mel,
Perhaps it's me, but I found "Jbunn, are you serious, or just being a democrat?" to be mocking. Especialy for those here that may be democrats.

OK, fair enough, I accept that, and thank you in return. Not sure if these other guys want us to take it outside by now. Or you can let me buy you a beer... : )

Libya? It's very sad. Embasy work is difficult and state department officials work under difficult conditions, often in troubled parts of the world. For all countries combined, they have suffered 46 embassy attacks in the last 10 years. For the US alone, we have had 23 embassies attacked in the last 30 years.

Christopher Stephens was a great friend to Libya, and they recognize that. Over the next two weeks, protests like the one in Libya on September 21st helped disarm many militas.

4 people died in that attack. 7 Libyans were injured trying to help. Stephens was found and taken to the hospital where Libyans worked on him for two hours to revive him.

The state department people were nearby with M4s and the CIA came in from a mile away, but they were massivly outguned by that time. To say we stood by watching while Americans were murdered is a disservice to the Americans and Libyans that did come to assist that night.

But my personal take away from all this is it's really sad, it's a loss to us and it's a loss to them, and there are lots of crazy people out there. You can get your ass shot off in a movie theater or school these days. Or half way around the world.

davidcjones | November 1, 2012

I would vote Blue (like my Roadster) rather than Red (like our Signature Model S) if I had to choose Blue v. Red. However, I don't (because my state will go blue) so I voted for the Modern Whig Party candidate since i really don't want either one of them.

Brant | November 1, 2012

Jbunn
It's not you; it's poor etiquette pure and simple
A common consequence of too many hours spent listening to the fat man behind the golden microphone

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