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Winter wheels/tires packages for Model S

Winter wheels/tires packages for Model S

At my test drive this weekend at Toronto I was told that Tesla will soon officially announce their winter wheels/tires packages for Model S.

Prelim info is they will offer 2 options, both on the 19" rims currently being offered with all-season tires (I'm assuming 245/45/19):

- Option 1: non-studded Pirelli winter tires (no info yet on which ones), set of 4 for $2400
- Option 2: studded Nokian winter tires (no info on which one but I'm assuming Hakkapeliitta 7), set of 4 for $2800

No word yet on the availability/pricing of purchasing just the extra set of 19" rims.

For general reference, price on TireRack.com for Pirelli Winter Sottozero Serie II (Performance Winter/Snow) are $271 each ($1084 for a set of 4); price on Tiresbyweb.com for Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7 (studded) are $339 each ($1356 for a set of 4).

I've never had to switch between summer and winter tires (I've used all-seasons on my previous and current rides), but since I'm going with the 21" performance tires, being in NE Ohio, I'll need to switch to either all-season or winter tires from November to March. So pending availability/pricing on the extra set of rims, I'll most likely be purchasing from Tesla Option 1 mentioned above.

Thoughts on pricing, choice of tires by TM?

HaroldS | August 6, 2012

Darn,

I posted this info in another thread before I saw this one. I hate to cross post, but here it is:

Got an email today from Tesla listing new tire and wheel packages for purchase. Here's a quote:

Tesla Motors has released new information on wheel/tire pricing. If you have not seen it already, here it is:

19” Winter Wheel/Tire Package with Pirelli Winter Tires
o $2400

19” Winter Studded Wheel/Tire Package with Nokian studded winter tires
o $2800

19” Wheel Package -- set of 4 19” wheels
o $1000

19 “ Wheel (single)
o $275

21” Wheel/Tire Package -- set of 4 21” Silver Wheels with Performance Tires
o $5,200

21” Wheel (single)
o $950

End quote.

The items which do not say "tires" are for rims only. Sorry about the awkward formatting, but that is pretty much the way it came.

jerry3 | August 6, 2012

Thanks Harold

Scorch | August 6, 2012

This is great news! I ordered the 21" but live in Colorado and with the car showing up likely in Nov\Dec I need the 19" wheels right away. Just being able to order the wheels is perfect too so I can order Blizzak tires, the best ice tires I have ever used.

Thanks Tesla!

Brian H | August 6, 2012

Cross-posting:

Yowza! Now you can even mix and match -- 19" fronts and 21" rears, etc. ;p

stephen.kamichik | August 6, 2012

For the winter, you can buy 19 inch steel rims and the tires of your choice.

stephen.kamichik | August 6, 2012

TM's bolt pattern is 5x120.

jerry3 | August 7, 2012

stephen,

Just don't forget to choose the correct offset (40mm). Every 25 mm of offset difference (from stock) is like adding an extra 1000 lb. to the axle weight. The wheel bearings don't appreciate the additional load.

MandL | August 7, 2012

Living in Maryland, I've never used winter/snow tires, but since my Signature S is coming with 21" wheels I've been assuming I need to get a set of 19" wheels for winter. Last winter was extremely mild - we had maybe three days where there was freezing or near-freezing precipitation to deal with on the roads.

My question is, what does it mean to drive with winter tires on dry roads for months on end? Does the ride suck? Do the tires wear prematurely?

If the air suspension can lift each wheel for tire changing as someone implied a few months back in some other thread, I may just leave the 21" wheels on the car and plan to swap out at home when the weather actually turns bad (another toy buying opportunity! - compressor). That way I could get the studded tires and have even more confidence when driving in actual bad conditions.

stephen.kamichik | August 7, 2012

Winter tires are made of a soft sticky compound. They wear very quickly at temperatures above eight degrees Celsius.

jerry3 | August 7, 2012

- My question is, what does it mean to drive with winter tires on dry roads for months on end?

Basically it means that the tire life will be short and the handling will be squishy.

For mild winter areas all-seasons are a reasonable compromise solution. Even if you have two sets of wheels you still should consider all-seasons for your winter tires because they will tend to last longer and handle better during 90% to 95% of your driving. Snow tires will be better for the five or six days of actual snow you experience in a year, but often in areas with mild winters folks don't drive on those days.

Brian H | August 7, 2012

If you're getting 2 sets, all-seasons may not be a great idea. They're like hybrid cars: neither fish nor fowl. They will wear faster than summers in summer, with less traction, and give mediocre performance in serious snow. Maybe penny-wise and pound-foolish. IMO.

The other disadvantage, tho', of driving on winters on pavement is that the actual contact with the road is reduced because of the wide channels between treads necessary to "throw off" the snow without clogging. If you only have a few days of real snow per year, it might be smarter just to park the car till it melts! Unless you get a kick out of changing wheels. ;)

Brian H | August 7, 2012

BTW;
"freezing or near-freezing precipitation" is NOT the same as snow. Ice tires are quite different from snows. Snow tires actually suck on ice, because the contact area is reduced.

Epley | August 7, 2012

What are the group's thoughts about the performance tires in water-logged Seattle? We get two dry months per year. We get snow, but rarely and we use snow tires on our van in the winter for skiing. So, my question really comes down to this: can I keep the performance tires on year round? Other than wear and expense, is there a downside to this?

jerry3 | August 7, 2012

epley,

The wider the tread surface is, the more it will be problematic in wet conditions. Hydroplaning happens when the wedge of water that builds up under the front of the tire becomes equal to the inflation pressure of the tire. The wider the tire the more water is wedged and the sooner it happens. (Also the lower the inflation pressure the sooner it happens).

The 21" tires have a wider tread surface than the 19" tires even though the nominal section width is the same.

jerry3 | August 7, 2012

-- "freezing or near-freezing precipitation" is NOT the same as snow.

Correct, which is why good all-season tires are better than snow tires for those conditions. You get the flexibility needed in freezing temperatures, the ice traction because of the multiple sipes, and the better wear characteristics for the majority of days which are dry. Good all-season tires will do that. Of course, there many all-seasons that are not good.

kublai | August 7, 2012

Was there mention of an option for a set of the 19" wheels with their all-season tires(Goodyear?) and the price?

mlascano | August 7, 2012

Kublai, no, this option was not mentioned so far. But it appears they will be selling the extra set of 19" rims without tires --> you could purchase separately your choice of all-seasons to complete the package.

Brian H | August 7, 2012

Anyone in Seattle with rain tire experience? That's another climatic option ...

murraypetera | August 7, 2012

Jerry3,

After a cross country trip in February and my first set of Snow Tires I became a believer and now always put on Snow tires come December.

The tests also show a different result than you are offering.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=116

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/tests/bs_ice_testing_09/bs_ice_test...

"In the end, only today's high-tech studless winter / snow tires have proven to consistently blend good noise comfort along with traction in snow and on ice."

Brian H | August 8, 2012

murraypetera;
Excellent study. The previous line is worth including:

"All-season tires are designed to provide traction in a wider range of temperatures, but we've found they can perform like a Jack-of-all-trades, master of none. Only today's dedicated winter / snow tires have proven to be able to blend good noise comfort and winter traction."

Peter Spirgel | August 8, 2012

I just switched back to the 21" performance tires and ordered a 2nd set of 19" rims ($1,000). I live in NJ and did not view the 21" tires as practical for our weather in the winter and the bad conditions of our roads (pot holes). It bothered me that as a Signature reservation holder, downgrading to the 19" wheels was the equivalent of parting with a $3,500 option that Tesla would not credit toward my purchase price. Once they published the cost of the 19" rims, I decided to get the 21" tires and either switch to the 19" rims in the winter or simply sell the 21" rims to someone else. I decided to buy the tires for the 19" rims myself (as opposed to ordering through Tesla) because I have not decided which tires I should get and there seem to be plenty of options. Any recommendations on the best all-season tires for driving in the Northeast? Now, I just hope I get my car before winter arrives! (Estimated delivery date on my agreement says "September.")

John56 | August 8, 2012

@Peter, I live on the west side of Philly and I did the same thing. I went with the 21" wheels and will order an extra set of standard 19" wheels. Tirerack has the Tesla OEM 19" Goodyears on sale for $153 each, so I'll probably order 4 of those.

adstein | August 8, 2012

Also one should remember that the 21s come with summer tires which are not suitable or safe near freezing.

Peter Spirgel | August 8, 2012

@John56 Thanks.

Eys | August 8, 2012

Is anyone concerned that the S doesn't come with a spare tire ? If you get a flat, you have to get it towed ?

Brian H | August 8, 2012

Eys;
You get a can of puncture fix, which will allow you to drive slowly to the nearest tire store. Where you will have to replace the tire, and maybe the wheel, too.
<:)
>:(

Vawlkus | August 9, 2012

Theres also that active air three wheel bit to get you to a garage to get your tire patched. Hmmmmm I guess garages will still get a LITTLE business }B)

jerry3 | August 9, 2012

- Is anyone concerned that the S doesn't come with a spare tire ?

Yes, no spare tire is the worst thing about the Model S.

-- If you get a flat, you have to get it towed ?

If you have the air suspension, you should be able to limp a short distance on three wheels.

In addition, Tesla is selling the wheels at a very reasonable price so it won't be expensive to purchase a spare (though it really should be included in the price). The 21" wheel/tire won't fit in the frunk but the 19" one should be able to if you remove the lining.

Probably the best way to deal with the situation is to leave the spare at home normally and only carry it on long trips. The limp mode on the air suspension should avoid run-flat damage to the tire so most flats are likely to be repairable.

Volker.Berlin | August 9, 2012

Is anyone concerned that the S doesn't come with a spare tire ? (Eys )

The whole issue has been discussed here:
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/tires-spare-run-flat

If you have the air suspension, you should be able to limp a short distance on three wheels. (jerry3)

In the same thread, the "limp on three wheels" stunt has been discussed. Get real -- it's just a stunt! The air suspension may in fact be helpful for changing tires (together with a jack, of course, but reducing the sweat to lift the car up), but "limping on three wheels" is not a mode of operation.

jerry3 | August 9, 2012

Volker,

It was never "just a stunt" in my DS-21. No reason why it should be a stunt in the Model S. Of course, you don't want to run on three wheels for any length of time, but to get to a place where it is safe to change the tire (on the highway) or to a nearby tire place (in the city) it should be just fine.

Volker.Berlin | August 9, 2012

jerry3, first of all, it only works for the right, rear wheel (left rear in countries like GB), because of weight distribution (driver opposite to lifted wheel). Then you need to lock the differential because with one rear wheel in the air and an open differential, the Model S wouldn't drive. Well, maybe the traction control could fix that by keeping the brake on the lifted wheel to get the car going. It still sounds awfully adventurous to me. (Funny, yes, but nothing I want to count on in any kind of emergency.)

jerry3 | August 9, 2012

Volker,

How did this reply end up in this thread?

jerry3 | August 9, 2012

mlascano,

I'd recommend the Hakkapeliitta R rather than the 7s because the Rs are studless (studs are mostly a bad thing) and have very low rolling resistance, and they are slightly less ($320 vs. $339).

jerry3 | August 9, 2012

mlascano,

Also Pirelli is famous for uneven wear.

Timo | August 9, 2012

Depends of the surfaces you are driving. In icy roads nothing beats studded tires, studless tires just manage to polish crossroads to hazardous conditions.

Volker.Berlin | August 9, 2012

jerry3, look at the bottom of this thread's first page... ;-) My post happened to be the first one on the second page, so that probably put you out of context.

jerry3 | August 9, 2012

Must have. I clicked on the number, and this forum is annoying because it puts the first post on the top of every page.

John56 | August 9, 2012

I am getting the 21" performance tires and a second set of 19" wheels for winter (live outside Philly, Pa). I called Tirerack to order 4 of the OEM Goodyears for the 19" wheels since they are on sale for $153. The rep I talked to talked me out of them. He said they are on sale because Goodyear gave them a deal to buy up a bunch and get rid of them. He said if I want the best combination of ride/comfort and grip in rain/snow then he would recommend the Continental Extreme Contact DWS (Ultra High Performance) 245/45ZR19. He said they ride like a dream and are MUCH better in snow than the Goodyears. He is definitely NOT a fan of the Goodyears.The Contis have a wear rating of 540 A A and are rated 98Y. Their price is $211 each. Not bad, so I've decided to hold off and get these tires for my 19" winter wheels. Actually, I'll probably be driving these tires about 8 months each year and using the 21" summer Contis around 4 months each year.

Carmine | August 12, 2012

John56, I'm in NJ and expect delivery in Oct. and I too will be getting a second set of 19" wheels. Before you settle on the Continental Extreme Contact DWS check out the Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Utra High Performance All Season tires.
As far as wheels, I remember, some months back, someone mentioning 19" turbofans (which were a match for the 21's) . I have not been able to locate the posting and I'm not sure that, if they exist, they have the proper 5X120 bolt pattern with a 40mm offset.
Volker.Berlin, can you help us all out with that one?

pilotSteve | August 12, 2012

"..Check out the Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Utra High Performance All Season tire". i have these on my BMW 550 and they have been great. Nearly 30,000 miles and they are just now being replaced. Great all weather handling.

Since I just purchased four new ones my local dealer told me they are becoming hard to get in certain sizes. Great tire however from my experience. Probably what I will buy when I get 19" wheels.

BYT | August 12, 2012

These look close, not sure about the lug nut fit however? http://www.performancealloys.com/Turbine-alloy-wheels.aspx

mlascano | August 13, 2012

Thanks for the insight/input jerry3.

I am 3146 | August 13, 2012

I am in NJ near Philly also and my thought was to kill two birds with one stone. I was thinking about getting the extra set of wheels and mounting Pirelli Winter Sottozero Serie II Run Flat. I would be able to roll through the snow and would have the added security of the run flat when I hit the hidden pot holes.

Peter Spirgel | August 13, 2012

@NJ065 and Carmine. I'm in Cherry Hill and have been told late Sept delivery. (I'm thinking it will be more like Oct based on what I read in the Forums) I'm getting a 2nd set of 19" rims. Thanks for the info on the tires.

jerry3 | August 13, 2012

NJ7065 -- I would be able to roll through the snow and would have the added security of the run flat when I hit the hidden pot holes.

At the expense of much higher power consumption. Just keep some air in your tires and potholes won't be much of a problem. Most pothole failures occur because of low air pressure. In the winter the cold air shrinks lowering the tires' air pressure so you have to compensate.

Carmine | August 13, 2012

BYT, thanks for the info on turbine 19" wheels; but at $1000/wheel
I may have to pass. Are there any cheaper ones available?
I think with the state of the roads in NJ carrying a spare is not a bad idea. Does the S have points in its' frame where it can be jacked up & will any old jack work?
An earlier posting stated that a 19' wheel would fit in the frunk but a 21" WOULD NOT. Aren't they the same overall diameter so it should not make a difference....or am I missing something?

BYT | August 13, 2012

For the 19" Turbines they are about £198 or $314 each after converting. Trouble finding a US reseller of that particular model/brand.

jerry3 | August 13, 2012

Carmine -- Does the S have points in its' frame where it can be jacked up & will any old jack work?

If you have the air suspension you don't need a jack with the Model S, only a jack stand (which will be much safer than any jack). There is a "jack" position on the suspension. The procedure will almost certainly be:

1. Select the jack position on the display.

2. Place the jack stand(s) in the designated places.

3. Select the standard position on the display.

4. Watch two wheels being lifted off the ground.

Heartland | August 13, 2012

Carmine, Yes you are correct that the outside diameters are the same for both tires. People keeping insisting on thinking that they are not and perpetuating the erroneous information. They also think that if you store it flat then it would fit and you could fill it with a portable compressor when it was needed. The issue with that is the tire sidewalls get damaged over time by doing that.

kublai | August 13, 2012

Since both the 19" and 21" wheels with tires will have the same diameter would it be ok to use a 19" wheel/tire as a spare if you have a flat while using the 21"?

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