Does the Forum have less added value as compared to last year?

Does the Forum have less added value as compared to last year?

Last year, prior to, and just after the launch this Forum was very useful and interesting.
I noticed that there is less and less 'news' coming up.

We already lost Volker last year, it seems to me that he quit at the right time. | 28 February, 2013

Its been about 20 months for me on the forum-- It was very informative as a new reservation holder waiting for delivery. There is a lot to be learned if you want to.

Now that I have delivery I am looking to different parts of the forum & private threads. It's fun to read the new owner experiences.

More of what I find myself doing now is counter balancing the trolls/negativity posters so the newer members get a more accurate picture of the S.

stevenmaifert | 28 February, 2013

Prior to launch last June, much on the info on MS was either speculative or based on pre-production versions of the car. Now with the car in the hands of several thousand new owners, what we see here, mostly, is real life experiences with MS that members new to a reservation and the forum can use to make informed decisions about configuration or even to buy MS at all.

jbunn | 28 February, 2013

Before my car came, I was starved for any kind of information. Now it seems the trolls have arrived.

GeirT | 1 March, 2013

This forum is good. I have frequented it for about 3 months so far from a veteran, and have learned a lot. It is useful to read owners experiences with the car and their touring and driving experiences. My experience from other similar forums (Harley, vintage cars...) the postings it will very often be concerning specific technical issues, troubleshooting and good ideas etc. besides the social aspects like meet-ups. The difference from this forum is that these are membership access thus no trolls.
Unfortunately too many annoying trolls here, but a good thing they are so stupid thus easy to spot. It is a weakness as this forum shall be for the curious and interested thus not good to make it too difficult to access. That means we have to endure the trolls. My solution to this is that we shall be more attentive, call them out and ignore them. Trolls thrive on attention, to cause heated discussions and name calling. If non of their posts are reacted to - they will grow tired and eventually find other greener pastures.

drp | 1 March, 2013



It can be very useful to use the forum and there are mostly very smart people hear.
FYI...I get delivery in 23hours 56 minutes but I'm not paying that much attn to the clock

Captain_Zap | 1 March, 2013

The forums are more cumbersome and fragmented due to the increase in traffic.
Threads are less thorough and complete since Volker.Berlin left.
:( | 1 March, 2013

Now how many hours?
I waited 18 months, 1 day, 2 hours but who's counting.
Please post your experience & have fun (I still am)

drp | 1 March, 2013

17hours 38 minutes to go

jbunn | 1 March, 2013

Oh, on cue the troll showed up! Hey Nick, hows it going? FYI, people make judgements all the time. Let god speak for himself.

nickjhowe | 1 March, 2013

+1 @drp

Pungoteague_Dave | 1 March, 2013


Someone made a comment about trolls on a thread with no reference to you at all. Then YOU respond, throwing insults. Obviously you must see yourself as the intended "troll" target whenever anyone speaks abut troublemakers on this forum. Feeling guilty? Why else would you respond?

Over on the private side there is some discussion about you that I found interesting. I didn't know this, but you apparently never comment in private threads. However, you claim to have a reservation. I have defended you as probably the real thing, but now am not so sure. If you do have a reservation, you would have access to private threads. The fact that you don't comment on those threads says to me that you are not telling the truth. I am sorry if you think this is an attack, but if it is true that you don't have a reservation, then you are the very definition of troll.

There is also some conversation on the private side about Brian H, who apparently also does not have a reservation, and is waiting for Gen III. Some guys apparently don't have a life. That two guys who neither own a Model S or have a reserved car dominate these threads shows how little value the forum is adding these days.

Brian has a much longer history on here than nn, but these two gusy spend hours per day around here. Just sayin' - there's a reason that Voelker decided to check out a couple months back, to get hs family life back. I am very close to doing so myself now that I have a car and my questions are answered every day while driving. I thought that participating might help some others with teething issues, but mine are mostly complete.

Brian H | 1 March, 2013

Pure fanboi. Sorry if it offends your sensibilities. Not.

GeirT | 1 March, 2013

@ Pungoteague_Dave

Hear, hear!

As I suggested, lets ignore these people, make them as insignificant here as they obviously are in their sad little lives.

Brian H | 1 March, 2013

BTW, search "Timo". Also waiting for GenIII.

jbherman | 1 March, 2013

@Pungoteague_Dave: While I agree with everything you've said above, this forum does have its glitches. For example, I have been in possession of my car since 1/16 (VIN xxxx3319), but for some reason lost access to the private threads after taking delivery. I have asked ownership and pinged the generic site contact, to no avail. To that end, while I don't believe it to be true, there is a slight chance (or perhaps a sliver of a chance) that the guys you're referring to are having the same problem. Interestingly, they haven't brought it up. Regardless, those posts on this side do make me want to bang my head against the wall.

jbherman | 1 March, 2013

Just to add to above...the conversation over at TMC is typically a lot better and more informative. Furthermore, the moderators over there have the ability to eliminate "trolling." It's much more peaceful over there. I still like to check over here in case something slips through the cracks.

cloroxbb | 1 March, 2013

So people that do not have a reservation should NOT come here to these forums and discuss the model s with other interested people that may or may not have reservations? Is that correct?

jbherman | 1 March, 2013

I don't think anyone said that. There's a difference between information seeking, false information spouting, and trolling.

cloroxbb | 1 March, 2013

Well my impression by a couple of the posts is that if you do not own, or do not have a reservation, then you dont belong here.

I guess people who are interested but dont have the money yet, aren't priviledged enough to rub elbows with those that do :)

cloroxbb | 1 March, 2013

Its not going to cause me to leave or anything. Just gives me a clearer picture of some of the users, and their elitist attitude(s).

By no means am I advocating the trolling and such though. Dont get me wrong. I guess I just "dont have a life" since I am on these forums w/o owning or having reserved, a model s. I just like reading about and interacting with those (non elitist) members that own or have a reservation, and with those that do not but are as excited about Tesla as I am.

cpetrush | 1 March, 2013

Clorox: don't even go there! This forum is for Tesla lovers. Only haters are not welcome. It has been a great source of information and bonding over a shared obsession. It's a real downer when posts are about bashing Tesla by those that don't have one. You can say crap about your own car, but not one you don't plan to own.

cloroxbb | 1 March, 2013

Like I said, I understand the sentiment about the trolling. I cant stand that shyte either. If I misinterpreted the posts, and they were only about trolls, well, then I am wrong. :)

jbherman | 1 March, 2013

Well, Nick who's name isn't Nick, you claim to be doing research. You seem to do a lot more talking than asking. You obviously feel the need to discourage people on this site from pursuing their interests in the Model S. You claim that the S isn't ready yet. By stifling interest, it will never achieve the level of readiness you desire, to go along with your multitudes of luxury cars. Let us owners and interested parties be the beta testers. Why don't you just let it happen organically and come back in a couple of years when it meets your standards? You share your "thoughts" in every thread, on every topic. You dodge every attempt to substantiate your most basic of claims and then you piss and moan that nobody believes you. It's very simple. This forum takes up a tremendous amount of your time. You speak because you want people to believe you and value your opinion. Why else would you be here, right? But, your opinions cannot be valued at this time because you don't show yourself to be credible. Yes, I get it...freedom of speech and all that. But, if you're going to take the time here every day, why not place one simple post in a private thread? Just a "Nick says Hi!" You don't have to "go" anywhere. It's right here on this forum. You just can't see those threads because you don't have a reservation. That's OK. There's no reason to fabricate the truth. Just come clean and say that you're just a guy who likes to talk about Tesla (albeit predominantly negative). Brian H doesn't have a reservation. He's a Teslaphile (with a grammar fetish) and that's great. Really, you can put this all to rest with a mouse either choose not to or can't, for obvious reasons. That's the simple truth.

Pungoteague_Dave | 1 March, 2013

nnt, there's a private forum thread addressed specifically to you. If you are real, you can respond without identifying anything about yourself. Not your name, not your number, nothing. All you have to do is say HI!.

You sir have been called out. If you are not BSing us, you can prove it easilly. If you are full of it, we are done with you.

jbherman | 1 March, 2013


I don't think there's any elitism amongst the owners here. Rather it's the opposite. We want to share experiences and help interested others. If you aren't aware of the history, the negativity towards one individual has been deemed justifiable by a number of longtime posters on this forum, following numerous questionable claims, comments, positions, and contradictions. People are calling him out in order to make certain that casual observers looking for information (like you) get a credible view of what's reality, from those who know it first hand. Unfortunately, as you know from the NYT article, there are many with questionable motives. There was no intent to make people like you feel unwelcome. I would encourage you to check out for another source of abundant information from some incredibly intelligent people. I knew very little about EVs prior to Model S ownership. This forum and TMC got me up and running...and addicted.

jbherman | 1 March, 2013

By the way nnt, that private thread is right on the front page of the Model S sub-forum...currently right next to this thread. It should be very easy to locate. It shows automatically to those who are owners or have reservations. You don't have to sign up for it.

jbherman | 1 March, 2013

You're either super busy, super principled, or super full of it. I know which one I'm going with.

Thank you for your time. Have a nice day.

jbherman | 1 March, 2013

BTW nnt, if you can see that thread, what is its title?

sancann | 1 March, 2013


For private threads, you can see the title you simply cannot comment. When I am on my cell looking at the threads without logging it, it shows the titles but then shows zero comments and a lock. Once I log in, I can open them and see the contents. Thus him knowing the title means little. NNT posting to the private thread will tell whether he has a reservation.

DTsea | 1 March, 2013

NNT- it's a car. A really cool car. But at the end of the day, not a spouse, or life and death, or a career.

Takes a while to charge it. Goes fast, handles great, really comfortable. Price is public. Why do you need to keep bugging Tesla? Buy one, or don't. Read consumer reports. I bought one. It's great.

jbherman | 1 March, 2013


Thanks for the clarification. He certainly has time to post under this thread but not the private one. So we can eliminate "busy." That leaves "principled" or "full of it." He's probably throwing together a reservation now so that he'll be able to respond. That's why he "doesn't want to" hasn't been processed yet. Very sad...

sancann | 1 March, 2013


I doubt his allowance is that high...

Pungoteague_Dave | 1 March, 2013


It is now very clear that you have no reservation, no brother with a Model S, and are a dishonest prick. You have been called out and proven a liar. You were given all the tools to redeem yourself, and could not. You will rot in a special corner of Hell reserved for losers.

jbunn | 2 March, 2013

I agree with P_Dave on that last comment.

I would also like to say that unlike Nick, Brian H, is most certainly NOT a troll. I bought a Tesla because I'm too cheap to purchase gas. Some folks here bought a Tesla because they have money burning holes in their pocket. Other folks come here with future plans to purchase a Tesla, or because of the interest in the technology. It really does not matter who you are or why you are here.

I have had arguments with Brian, and had my spelling corrected countless times. I'll probably get one tonight. I've actualy learned to spell a bit better because of it. He's pretty dammed detailed, witty and has an interesting perspective.

There are icons here. MM, Volker B, etc. (Hey, Brian! I got etc!). Brian H has been here for what seems like close to two years. He's actualy done a great service to this community.

In all that time, he's never claimed to be anything other than he is.

And that seperates him from a troll like Nick.

Brian H | 2 March, 2013

FYI, I don't see any of the "private" threads. They're just not visible at all.

bradslee | 2 March, 2013

@sancann, @Jbherman, @Brian,

For private threads, as sancann described, perhaps if you use your cell phone, you can see the titles even if you are not registered users but only registered users can edit/post comments. However, if you use a Mac (I am not sure if PC does the same), if you are not a registered user, like Brian says, the private threads are completely absent and you cannot even see the titles.

Klaus | 2 March, 2013

I bought the perfect car.

jbherman | 2 March, 2013

+1 Klaus

I am so pleased with my car. I haven't had a single problem with fit, finish, range, or driving experience (except, maybe, climate control). Rather, it has exceeded my expectations and is on par (if not superior to) luxury ICEs I've had in the past (MB, Audi, and BMW). Everybody leaves my car with a smile on their face and a "wow!" I can't say that about any car I've previously owned.

defmonk | 2 March, 2013

Yes, this is a public forum. As such, everyone with an interest in Tesla should have the opportunity to express his opinion here.

For me, there is a simple fix to preserving the value of the forum. One of the devaluing aspects of the forum is that it is difficult to assess the credibility of contributors. How do I know, for example, that Brian H is neither a reservation holder nor an owner (without reading through his numerous postings)? However useful his contributions, it matters that his opinions are formed through research and analysis, rather than first-hand experience.

When Tesla officially posts in the forum, their posts bear the "T" symbol. I think the quality of discourse, and the utility of the forum, would be enhanced by having a similar designation for reservation holders and for owners.

jbherman | 2 March, 2013

So glad you agree:

"When Tesla officially posts in the forum, their posts bear the "T" symbol. I think the quality of discourse, and the utility of the forum, would be enhanced by having a similar designation for reservation holders and for owners."

That's all we want Nick/not Nick. Then we can place your posts in the proper context (a guy who has allegedly ridden in a Canadian Model S a couple of times, yet espouses a great deal of first hand knowledge).

bsimoes | 2 March, 2013

I, too, am getting frustrated with this forum. No thread can seem to stay on topic anymore, and it has spiraled down to a lot of childish name calling. I read it to get information, both good and bad about the car, so that, when I receive my car, I will be better informed and know what to keep an eye out for. I hate that I have to slog through the endless posts about whether or not someone is a troll...really? Aren't we all adults here? ...and before you say it, if we're not, that should then be more forgivable. Live and let live. I know that I am tempted to do as did. His posts had a sense of decorum that has seemed to evaporate since his leaving.

Pungoteague_Dave | 2 March, 2013

Defmonk, you apparently are new to the nnt world and the disruptive element that a troll like him can be on a forum. I tried to be nice to him and give him the benefit of the doubt. Others were smarter than me, saw right through him.

The reason this is important is that he posts everywhere, all the time, dropping turds in what should be a positive learning environment. I am no TM fanboi, and often discuss problems and issues with the car and TM, but I own a Model S and have skin in the game. nnt constantly bashes the car and tries to gain legitimacy with claims of all kinds of TM connections that are now proven false, so he is no longer a legitimate participant here.

It wouldn't be so bad except that he regularly lies in ways that we can verify. We ultimately called him out on the private side, available only to reservation holders, and he could not respond - Absolute proof that he is a troll. New people may not know that, and therefore engage with him as though he is "real." In order to protect the forum's basic validity, nnt must be constantly identified as what he is, a liar. It is akin to watching a known pedophile approach a kid. Time to intervene.

Some consider that any response to a troll is feeding him. That's a valid view, but it works with a rationally thinking disrupter. nnt is not rational and apparently has a Tesla fixation, so I doubt he will evaporate, although he may change his identity. We must remain vigilant.

sshrivas | 2 March, 2013

I find the forums very helpful. Perhaps it losses some Value for folks who have already received their car but for folks like me who are waiting for the car, these forums are great. I do have to master the art of skipping useless stuff from otherwise useful content.

Mel. | 2 March, 2013

Jbunn +1

Pd, you have not been with us long enough to understand the importance of BrianH. Also, you do not take criticism well.

defmonk | 2 March, 2013

@Pungoteague_Dave: I don't disagree with you in principle. I just think a badging would disempower any "trolling," because we could easily see in any thread who "has skin in the game" and who does not. Not a radical idea - other forums, like HuffPo and TMC, use that system.

nickjhowe | 2 March, 2013

The thing that puzzles me is why anyone on the forums respond to any of those trolling posts. Page after page of feeding the troll. Just ignore it. However tempting it might be to jump in, just take a deep breath and move on.

I'm sure TM will fix things when they can. They must have good reasons why they haven't added a lot of the forum features we've asked for - it is very obvious from other posts that they do (eventually) read the threads that we post. I'm sure they'll come eventually.

Can I humbly suggest everyone take a chill pill, remember why we are here - camaraderie, Q&A, sense of community, sharing our excitement, helping the noobs, being noobs!, hanging out - and get things back on an even keel.

Chill out everyone, and have a good time.

DouglasR | 2 March, 2013

@nickjhowe +1

Pungoteague_Dave | 2 March, 2013

defmonk +1

nickjhowe +1, no more responses to trolls from me

Mel, what criticism has there been of anything I said? I have been nothing but a positive contributor here, documented procedures, reported on new finding, etc. And I actually have a car... and how have a I responded negatively to anyone?

I am a fan of Brian H, so have NO idea where you get that I don't value him. I did tease him a couple times, but when I pointed out that he has no car or reservation, that isn't putting him down or comparing him to the troll in any way. He can be a bit self-important and pedantic in ways that Voelker never would have. I just observed that IMHO it is a bit unusual for someone to spend so much time here (said something about getting a life) without having a stake.

Voelker is missed.

Pretty good advice at the link below on what to do about trolls. I spent too much time satisfying the troll's needs:

Pungoteague_Dave | 2 March, 2013

And Mel, I have been here for several years.

Crow | 2 March, 2013

This thread does not have value. What a waste.